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Law and Borders
The Weekly Standard ^ | 2/28/2005 | Tamar Jacoby

Posted on 02/23/2005 5:15:25 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez

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To: bayourod
"Welfare isn't what America is about at all. It's about freedom and liberty. It isn't about military troops going door to door asking for "papers". It isn't about government forcing employers to pay exorbitant wages to labor union thugs."

America isn't about subsidizing cheap labor, either. If someone can't afford to stay in business without the taxpayer picking up the slack, they should go out of business.

161 posted on 02/23/2005 11:36:17 AM PST by monkeywrench
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To: jmc813; Dane; Jim Robinson

No less appropriate than claiming those who don't parrot a certain line are for "open borders" or hire illegal immigrants. Look at the folks who defend, of all sites, VDARE.

In any case, that decision is up to Jim Robinson and the moderators, not me. They handled his comment. I won't second-guess them.


162 posted on 02/23/2005 11:36:35 AM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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To: hchutch
"Do you know how many employers were convicted for hiring illegal immigrants?"

I'll bite. How many?

"Juries to date have rarely convicted."

Is there a source for court cases? I assume you know. Please provide links.

163 posted on 02/23/2005 11:38:47 AM PST by monkeywrench
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To: Dane

Do you think I'm trying to scare you by calling you a FROBL?

Is that the only part of my post you read or understood?

Free Republic Open Borders Lobby seems to describe about four or five posters that cannot or will not distinguish between illegal and legal immigrants for some reason.


164 posted on 02/23/2005 11:41:49 AM PST by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: hchutch
"......maybe we don't believe in trading our liberties for the promise of security?"

How, exactly, would placing the National Guard at the borders and cutting off all (welfare) benefits to illegal aliens be infringing on our liberties?

165 posted on 02/23/2005 11:42:38 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: hchutch
No less appropriate than claiming those who don't parrot a certain line are for "open borders" or hire illegal immigrants.

In other words, you agree with me that stupid comments come out of both factions.

166 posted on 02/23/2005 11:43:18 AM PST by jmc813 (Fiesta in the making at the Moontower)
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To: jmc813; hchutch
Gee, JMC, I thought it was proper FR etiquette to ping a Freeper if they are mentioned in a reply.

Your negligence in doing so, shows to me you are doing what you are beating your chest against, cheap political rhetoric.

As for my david duke comment, JMO, I do believe that some of the most strident posters on the immigration issue, hold david duke in high regard.

167 posted on 02/23/2005 11:43:35 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: hchutch
"Are you surprised we can call things as we see it, too, and take stands ourselves? That maybe we don't believe in trading our liberties for the promise of security?"

As mentioned already, FR is indeed a forum. A forum of opinion, at which others are free to assess that opinion critically.

There are those of you who are too readily willing to abdicate America's right to enforce -- by WHATEVER means -- it's sovereignty.

Your belief that the U.S. is "trading our liberties [National ID Card, governmental internet access, etc.] for the promise of security" is directly attributed to the President's unwillingness to deport illegal invaders and prioritize border enforcement as a "solution."

This is NOT rocket science.

168 posted on 02/23/2005 11:44:57 AM PST by F16Fighter
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To: Dane
Gee, JMC, I thought it was proper FR etiquette to ping a Freeper if they are mentioned in a reply.

Dude, you're here on this thread. If you weren't I'd have pinged ya.

As for my david duke comment, JMO, I do believe that some of the most strident posters on the immigration issue, hold david duke in high regard.

Your opinion is gay.

169 posted on 02/23/2005 11:45:04 AM PST by jmc813 (Fiesta in the making at the Moontower)
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To: jmc813; hchutch
"Do you feel Dane's rhetoric about FReepers "tearing down their David Duke posters" was appropriate?

"No less appropriate than claiming those who don't parrot a certain line are for 'open borders' or hire illegal immigrants."

BAWAAAAHA!!!

Where have we heard this kind of absurd equivocation??

Lol, case closed.

170 posted on 02/23/2005 11:49:10 AM PST by F16Fighter
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To: antisocial; Travis McGee
Free Republic Open Borders Lobby seems to describe about four or five posters that cannot or will not distinguish between illegal and legal immigrants for some reason.

Uh no, Free Republic Open Borders Lobby(FROBL for short), is used to try to intimidate(kinda of like of what liberal democrats do to try to smear people, IMO ), sorry but please tell the person who coined the term, Travis McGee, it ain't going to work.

171 posted on 02/23/2005 11:52:22 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: jmc813
Your opinion is gay

Takes one to know one, and you seem to have all the knowledge on that subject.

172 posted on 02/23/2005 11:54:03 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
"POLL: Should President Bush Grant Amnesty to Illegal Aliens?

Results: 2/21/05

Yes: (123,454) 2%

No: (6,169,823) 98%

Not to worry. It won't be called "Amnesty."

The Administration's hyper-gymnastic semantic think-tank olympians will come up with a beauty.

173 posted on 02/23/2005 11:55:02 AM PST by F16Fighter
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To: Dane

Too late.


174 posted on 02/23/2005 11:56:02 AM PST by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: Dane

You're cute.


175 posted on 02/23/2005 11:56:22 AM PST by jmc813 (Fiesta in the making at the Moontower)
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To: F16Fighter
would we and the GOP ever accept this "solution" from a Democratic President??

The answer is a resounding NO, of course.

....nor would many on the BOT plantation be accepting of the numerous other "compassionate" / big spending / big gov't "solutions" of this current (veto-less wonder) President had they come from a Rat Prez. In fact, most would (justifiably) be calling many of his actions (and non-actions) "treasonous."

176 posted on 02/23/2005 11:57:04 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Dane

Just the kind of shallow thinking remark I'e come to expect from another illegal cheerleader. FYI, I've had my own business for over 20 yrs. and during that time I've heard all the free trade BS over and over while at the same time seeing whole industries mfg. evaporate in this country (including high tech mfg.) along with huge trade deficits (costing us even more jobs) and an explosion of personal, corporate and fedgov debt. These are hardly signs of a vibrant economy, rather when you factor in billions to care and feed your illegal buddies, rampant TAX EVASION by those hiring illegals, porous borders resulting in untold #'s of Americans being raped, robbed, murdered, etc. I'm quite comfortable with my position.

By the way, why not get your resume over to the Politburo, I hear there's an opening for another American "useful idiot" and you seem qualified.


177 posted on 02/23/2005 11:59:06 AM PST by american spirit
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To: monkeywrench; Poohbah

Poohbah has explained that in the past.

But, the answer is none to his knowledge.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1330050/posts?page=81#81

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1330050/posts?page=61#61

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1317716/posts?page=160#160

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1305086/posts?page=711#711

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1305086/posts?page=510#510

That is five of the places he has explained it.

IIRC, he got it from someone in the U.S. Attorney's office who was handling the cases. And that was not the only case. At that point, all we are doing is having law enforcement harass businesses. I want my tax dollars spent better.

We passed a bad law that people DO NOT SUPPORT (a safe assumption when juries ROUTINELY nullify the law by acquitting defendants). And they didn't acquit because the penalties weren't harsh enough.


178 posted on 02/23/2005 11:59:06 AM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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To: monkeywrench
"If someone can't afford to stay in business without the taxpayer picking up the slack"

Working class taxpayers only pay a small percent of the taxes. The vast majority of taxes are paid by corporations and their wealthy owners.

Without employees there are no employers paying the taxes that support the schools your children go to. It's one big economy and the key is an adequate productive labor force, and that means immigrant laborers to replace the 41 million citizens who were aborted.

Even with all legal and illegal immigrants, our population only grew 1% last year.

Those immigrant children you are complaining about being in our schools will grow up to pay your social security and fight your wars. You should be wanting them to get the best possible education.

179 posted on 02/23/2005 12:06:13 PM PST by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: hchutch

None of those links prove your and pooh's oft repeated contention that "juries routinely refuse to convict". Try again. I thought you were talking about Tyson or something. Not some obscure case in california, of all places, way back when clinton was still in office.


180 posted on 02/23/2005 12:07:46 PM PST by monkeywrench
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