Bush: We will support Israel if her security is threatened by Iran

Jerusalem Post ^ | Feb. 17, 2005

[rmlew]

Sorry, but there is a civilization war. The MUSLIMS are our enemy.
PArticular Arab states have theoretically been allies far longer than Israel. However, the Saudis have been spreading Wahabbist propganda in the US. Make no mistake, they want to conquer us.

[Mark in the Old South]

I will have to read more on this tomorrow when I have time, but the replacement theory has some holes. There is the little trouble of predictions of a Jewish conversion. As such it is not possible they are outside God's plan. In addition there is OT prophecy that is clearly a return to the Holy Land of ALL the tribes of Israel. Now How is this possible if the Jews are not part of the plan? The same is true if the Jews are correct and the Church is a false doctrine. Where is the 10 tribes not reflected in the current nation of Israel? Some point out there were some remnant that escaped the captivity of Israel and sought refuge in Juda. The problem is the prophecies continued.

I think the answer is in John the Baptist when he said "God could make sons of Abraham, Issac and Jacob out of these very rocks and stones" It seems with Simon Peter (which means rock) he did. The lost tribes may be the Catholic Church (spiritually) Their return can be accomplished with the move of just one man (the Pope). Perhaps the fulfillment will be accomplished when the Papacy moves to Jerusalem?

[Mark in the Old South]

I will have to read more on this tomorrow when I have time, but the replacement theory has some holes. There is the little trouble of predictions of a Jewish conversion. As such it is not possible they are outside God's plan. In addition there is OT prophecy that is clearly a return to the Holy Land of ALL the tribes of Israel. Now How is this possible if the Jews are not part of the plan? The same is true if the Jews are correct and the Church is a false doctrine. Where is the 10 tribes not reflected in the current nation of Israel? Some point out there were some remnant that escaped the captivity of Israel and sought refuge in Juda. The problem is the prophecies continued.

I think the answer is in John the Baptist when he said "God could make sons of Abraham, Issac and Jacob out of these very rocks and stones" It seems with Simon Peter (which means rock) he did. The lost tribes may be the Catholic Church (spiritually) Their return can be accomplished with the move of just one man (the Pope). Perhaps the fulfillment will be accomplished when the Papacy moves to Jerusalem?

[judicial meanz]

Hi Mark!

This is just my opinion. There are people out there who are far better at interpretation than I am, but I'll give it a shot.

The Book of Hosea basically specifies how things are going to happen. Judah goes in to prepare the land ( Israel) and Ephraim ( the lost ten tribes) eventually gather into Israel.

I dont clearly identify any one Christian denomination as being the lost tribes of Israel. I think humans apply denominational labels, and some denominations are clearly in apostasy-big time.

I think G-d is a lot bigger than a denominational label and man-made traditions.

I do see a lot of people out there who worship G-d and identify with Israel very heavily in the gentile category, and they appear to be in every denominational category.

As for who the lost tribes are, I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

My opinion is this:

Christianity is designed to spread the word of G-d and bring it to the world ( some may disagree) and Judaism is the coporate knowledge. Although both disagree a lot, we fulfill seperate purposes. We worship the same G-d, and each side fulfills its task.

Rabbi Franz Rosenzweig probably put it best in his "Star of Redemption" manuscript.

[SausageDog]

"You presume that a Temple cannot be rebuilt, even though it has occured before."

The Jews tried it under the auspice of Emperor Julian the Apostate. It didn't work.

[SausageDog]

"Please do CITE it."

Good grief, man. I'm not going to post that stuff. Here, you may post the quotations if you choose: Sanhedrin 106a,
footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, Sanhedrin 43a, Sanhedrin 107b, Sotah 47a, Shabbos 104b. The last four citations are from the Babylonian edition.

"Do you want to go over Abortion laws in 'Christian' countries, including the US over the last 200 years?"

It was not not my intention to claim that the so-called Christian countries are morally superior to Israel.

[Mark in the Old South]

I am dreadfully ignorant of Jewish though on these matters, other than what is shared in the Old Testament. It would be interesting to hear from a Jewish Rabbi, preferably Orthodox or at least conservative.

As to the issue of Denominations I have to disagree. I am Catholic and must you see. It is more than just an obligation per the Church but my understanding of the Bible. When it comes to who has authority from Christ that is clearly spelled out in the Bible when Christ renamed Simon to Peter. Christ said he would build his Church on the rock and Peter means rock. He did not say he would build his church on the sons of Core (Korah). The rebellion of Core is more than a story of the Hebrews in the Wilderness, large numbers of the Psalms are dedicated to the sons of Core. The Psalms as you know were written long after Moses, Aaron and company. I think there must be some reason. Christ also warned what would happen if any teach a different doctrine, they would be given the lowest place in heaven.

People can differ about which faith is THE correct one but the notion that all are relative equal just does not stand up to Scripture. There are many Churches in apostasy, my old faith, Episcopal for one. The Catholic Church has more than it should in this regard as well. I do believe that was predicted in Scripture as well.

I doubt I will convince anyone here today but if you have access to a Bible search program, type in the word "rock" and see how often the passage can fit as a reference to Peter, either as a metaphor or as a prediction. My favorite is Moses striking the rock in the desert. The second time he hesitated and he was punished. The Rock has made the same mistake in our own day and will suffer as well.

[judicial meanz]

Thanks for the reply Mark. I will respectfully agree to disagree with you on some matters, but I think you have a good head on your shoulders. We are all looking for truth these days.

I have two Orthodox sources for you, but please realize there is a lot of divergent opinions on the identity of the lost tribes, and individual sources are going to vary. These two sources put a lot of effort into identifying the two tribes, so I guess they have the best amount of information on the subject so far.

One source is Rabbi Feld from the Maccabee Institute in Israel. Link is here: http://www.maccabeeinstitute.org/

Brit-Am is also a good source: http://britam.org

Good luck!

[Lysshua]

Love that photo! I receive a catalog that has shirts saying "Don't worry America, we (Israelies)are behind you!" Appropriate, No?

[Lysshua]

Thanks! Said wonderfully.

[Lysshua]

Policy seems all to clear to me too. I think Bush's policy of attacking Al Qaeda while 'strongly encouraging' Israel to not only 'restrain from fighting back' but also 'reward them with land' is muddleheaded at best.

[Mark in the Old South]

Thank you. I will check them out.

[rmlew]

I would suggest that you read the following article.
http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/jesus.html

Good grief, man. I'm not going to post that stuff. Here, you may post the quotations if you choose: Sanhedrin 106a,
Balaam is not Jesus.

Shabbath 104b... Shabbos 104b. The last four citations are from the Babylonian edition.
Shabbath 104b and Shabbos 104B are the same text. What the heck is your source?!
At any rate, Ben Stada is not Jesus. Ben Stada's father, Pappos Ben Yehudah was a contemporary of Rabbi Akiva 20 years after Jesus's death.

Sanhedrin 43a
Now Yeshu was not Jesus of Nazareth. I understand the mix-up, as both have the same given name. However, Yeshu was put to death under the reign of the Hasmonean King Alexander Janneus, approximatly 70 years before Jesus was born.

[rmlew]

I wrote
"You presume that a Temple cannot be rebuilt, even though it has occured before."
SausageDog responded
The Jews tried it under the auspice of Emperor Julian the Apostate. It didn't work.
And the attempts to build a second Temple before Ezra and Nehemia also failed.