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Ron Paul - The National ID Trojan Horse
House Web Site ^ | 2-14-2005 | Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)

Posted on 02/14/2005 9:43:53 AM PST by jmc813

click here to read article


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To: kimosabe31

Jim Sensenbrenner is the principle supporter of this bill, and he's hardly a statist. I think Paul is spinning.


21 posted on 02/14/2005 10:16:27 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Chrome wheeled, fuel injected and steppin' out over the line)
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To: jmc813

Why MEXICO? Are they getting the same cards as us? Why is Bush in love with them???


22 posted on 02/14/2005 10:21:10 AM PST by Sassy_Sissy ( http://www.democratsindecline.com)
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To: Mr. Silverback; All

i don't know.... Gun Owners of America said the same thing when it first came out... i just posted a thread about what they and SD Gun Owners has to say about a SD bill that gave me the creeps ...

could the bang list guys take a look at my post related to this?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1342982/posts

thanks


23 posted on 02/14/2005 10:25:16 AM PST by sdpatriot ("If I know the answer I'll tell you the answer, and if I don't, I'll just respond, cleverly." Rummy)
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To: duk

I think his point is that the article makes sense, but unfortunately the messenger is suspect (his view, not mine), thus tainting the message.


24 posted on 02/14/2005 10:29:05 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: jmc813
The bill even provides for this sensitive information of American citizens to be shared with Canada and Mexico! Imagine a corrupt Mexican official selling thousands of identity files, including Social Security numbers, to criminals!

Regardless of what one might think of the rest of the bill, this alone should be enough to oppose it in my opinion.


Yep it should. Except that isn't in the bill. Ron Paul is lying.

Here's the COMPLETE BILL. There isn't one word about sharing info with Canada OR Mexico.

25 posted on 02/14/2005 10:35:11 AM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: Mr. Silverback
The "national ID card" is not a national ID card ... . The bill would set forth standards for state IDs so that forgery would be easier to detect.

Driver's licenses are a defacto ID card. Short of a passport, DLs are the only thing accepted throughout the country as real bonafide ID. Most people have them; to not have one is unusual. The ID requirements for getting one are steep, and this bill makes them even steeper; by nationalizing the standards for DLs, including such national ID info like Social Security Numbers, state DLs are effectively turned into National IDs.

Put another way: please explain how, upon passage of this bill into law, drivers licenses will NOT be National IDs for all practical purposes? (Don't say "a driver's license is optional" - fact is, driving is crucial to participating in most of this society; if you don't have a DL, you are pretty much impotent and helpless, unusual cases aside.)

26 posted on 02/14/2005 10:37:39 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: duk
** What is it exactly, that you find insane about this article?**

Oh...... how about that he's lying. Would that count as "insane"?

There is NO mention of sharing info with Canada or Mexico in the Bill.
REAL ID Act of 2005

27 posted on 02/14/2005 10:37:58 AM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: duk
***So, are the stated facts in the article true??***

NO! This article is bull-shiite. There is NO mention of sharing info with ANY foreign country in the Bill. And especially NOT Mexico.

H.R.418

This Ron Paul guy is a raving moonbat and a liar.

28 posted on 02/14/2005 10:41:58 AM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: Mr. Silverback

THIS SEARCH     THIS DOCUMENT     GO TO
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                Contents Display   

H.R.418

REAL ID Act of 2005 (Introduced in House)

SEC. 202. MINIMUM DOCUMENT REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUANCE STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL RECOGNITION.

SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.

SEC. 204. TRAFFICKING IN AUTHENTICATION FEATURES FOR USE IN FALSE IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENTS.

SEC. 205. GRANTS TO STATES.

SEC. 206. AUTHORITY.

SEC. 207. REPEAL.


THIS SEARCH     THIS DOCUMENT     GO TO
Next Hit        Forward           New Bills Search
Prev Hit        Back              HomePage
Hit List        Best Sections     Help
                Contents Display   


29 posted on 02/14/2005 10:44:03 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: Mr. Silverback
In Ron Paul's world, the way to cure federal judicial activism is to take the federal judiciary and make it unable to rule on any social/civil rights issue. Well, the problem with that is that the same court system that tried to screw with the Pledge of Allegiance is also the same system that guarantees the Boy Scouts their freedom of association.

I can pretty much guarantee you that if this power was taken away from the federal courts, it would be a very great relief to the Boy Scouts' freedom of association.

30 posted on 02/14/2005 10:44:16 AM PST by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: Sassy_Sissy
***Why MEXICO?***

NO Mexico, NO any foriegn country. Ron Paul is LYING.
Here's the bill: H.R.418 REAL ID Act of 2005

31 posted on 02/14/2005 10:44:53 AM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: Condor51

thanks for the link..

boy oh boy ... does Title II of this Bill suck. more bribery and coersion of the States by the Fed Gvt..

when are the States going to stand up and demand the Fed follow the 10th amendment.. ?


32 posted on 02/14/2005 10:45:00 AM PST by sdpatriot ("If I know the answer I'll tell you the answer, and if I don't, I'll just respond, cleverly." Rummy)
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To: Fyscat

I used to think agreance was not a word but apparently it is.


33 posted on 02/14/2005 10:48:01 AM PST by johnb838 (Evolution is Paganizm.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

And what's wrong with that? According to Alexander Hamilton, the judiciary was to be the "least dangerous" of the three branches of government. When the federal courts start to force things like busing on the states, they have overstepped their boundaries. Even the U.S. Supreme Court doesn't have the power to nullify the 9th and 10th Amendments.

34 posted on 02/14/2005 10:49:22 AM PST by sheltonmac ("Duty is ours; consequences are God's." -Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson)
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To: Sassy_Sissy
I'm sorry, I forgot to answer your question....
***Are they getting the same cards as us? ***

1 - NOBODY is getting an "ID" card.
2 - What this Bill does is set a Federal standard for the States to follow as to how they make their DL and state issued ID card.
3 - When its time for you to renew your DL (or state ID), you will get one that is tamper proof and can't be counterfeited. Most states ALREADY do this in that they are no longer laminated, and now have a hologram.

35 posted on 02/14/2005 10:52:37 AM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: Condor51
That link isn't working for me. Is it all contained in Post #29, or is there additional information in the link?
36 posted on 02/14/2005 10:52:53 AM PST by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: Mr. Silverback

And where does the federal government get the constitutional authority to do such a thing? Certainly not from the Constitution.

"To say that a bad government must be established for fear of anarchy is really saying that we should kill ourselves for fear of dying." -Richard Henry Lee

How would you solve judicial activism?

37 posted on 02/14/2005 10:57:43 AM PST by sheltonmac ("Duty is ours; consequences are God's." -Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson)
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To: sdpatriot
***thanks for the link..***

You're welcome.
I find that Thomas is pretty handy bookmark to have.

There's so much hyperbole, rumors, and out right lies about legislation (Like this article by this Ron Paul character) that its good to read a Bill yourself.

38 posted on 02/14/2005 10:59:55 AM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: jmc813

Interestingly, if my understanding is correct, Section 102, the portion of the bill dealing with the waiver of laws necessary for improvement of barriers at borders, would seem to give the Secretary of Homeland Security exceedingly broad powers (with respect to constructing certain roads and barriers, including taking of property by the government without compensation) that are not subject to review by any court. Is my understanding correct? Doesn't the Constitution prevent such a thing? Has the Federal Government attempted to exempt the actions of the Executive or other branch of government from judicial review in other bills? Isn't that an unconstitutional encroachment?


39 posted on 02/14/2005 11:00:23 AM PST by The Electrician
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To: Condor51

SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.


(a) In General- To be eligible to receive any grant or other type of financial assistance made available under this title, a State shall participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver license data, known as the `Driver License Agreement', in order to provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other States.


(b) Requirements for Information- A State motor vehicle database shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:



(1) All data fields printed on drivers' licenses and identification cards issued by the State.




(2) Motor vehicle drivers' histories, including motor vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

this above is BS

SD is passing a Bill through that will allow the sd LE a database on Concealed Carry permits. and THIS above will make that info available to all states and the Feds. this is anti 2nd, anti 4th, and anti 10th, and will be used to abolish or infringe on the 5th. wake up people.


40 posted on 02/14/2005 11:01:05 AM PST by sdpatriot ("If I know the answer I'll tell you the answer, and if I don't, I'll just respond, cleverly." Rummy)
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