Ron Paul - The National ID Trojan Horse

House Web Site ^ | 2-14-2005 | Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)

[Mr. Silverback]

Jim Sensenbrenner is the principle supporter of this bill, and he's hardly a statist. I think Paul is spinning.

[Sassy_Sissy]

Why MEXICO? Are they getting the same cards as us? Why is Bush in love with them???

[sdpatriot]

i don't know.... Gun Owners of America said the same thing when it first came out... i just posted a thread about what they and SD Gun Owners has to say about a SD bill that gave me the creeps ...

could the bang list guys take a look at my post related to this?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1342982/posts

thanks

[ctdonath2]

I think his point is that the article makes sense, but unfortunately the messenger is suspect (his view, not mine), thus tainting the message.

[Condor51]

The bill even provides for this sensitive information of American citizens to be shared with Canada and Mexico! Imagine a corrupt Mexican official selling thousands of identity files, including Social Security numbers, to criminals!

Regardless of what one might think of the rest of the bill, this alone should be enough to oppose it in my opinion.

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Yep it should. Except that isn't in the bill. Ron Paul is lying.

Here's the COMPLETE BILL. There isn't one word about sharing info with Canada OR Mexico.

[ctdonath2]

The "national ID card" is not a national ID card ... . The bill would set forth standards for state IDs so that forgery would be easier to detect.

Driver's licenses are a defacto ID card. Short of a passport, DLs are the only thing accepted throughout the country as real bonafide ID. Most people have them; to not have one is unusual. The ID requirements for getting one are steep, and this bill makes them even steeper; by nationalizing the standards for DLs, including such national ID info like Social Security Numbers, state DLs are effectively turned into National IDs.

Put another way: please explain how, upon passage of this bill into law, drivers licenses will NOT be National IDs for all practical purposes? (Don't say "a driver's license is optional" - fact is, driving is crucial to participating in most of this society; if you don't have a DL, you are pretty much impotent and helpless, unusual cases aside.)

[Condor51]

** What is it exactly, that you find insane about this article?**

Oh...... how about that he's lying. Would that count as "insane"?

There is NO mention of sharing info with Canada or Mexico in the Bill.
REAL ID Act of 2005

[Condor51]

***So, are the stated facts in the article true??***

NO! This article is bull-shiite. There is NO mention of sharing info with ANY foreign country in the Bill. And especially NOT Mexico.

H.R.418

This Ron Paul guy is a raving moonbat and a liar.

[ctdonath2]

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H.R.418

REAL ID Act of 2005 (Introduced in House)

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SEC. 202. MINIMUM DOCUMENT REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUANCE STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL RECOGNITION.

(a) Minimum Standards for Federal Use-

(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this Act, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.

(2) STATE CERTIFICATIONS- The Secretary shall determine whether a State is meeting the requirements of this section based on certifications made by the State to the Secretary. Such certifications shall be made at such times and in such manner as the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation, may prescribe by regulation.

(b) Minimum Document Requirements- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall include, at a minimum, the following information and features on each driver's license and identification card issued to a person by the State:

(1) The person's full legal name.

(2) The person's date of birth.

(3) The person's gender.

(4) The person's driver's license or identification card number.

(5) A digital photograph of the person.

(6) The person's address of principle residence.

(7) The person's signature.

(8) Physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes.

(9) A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements.

(c) Minimum Issuance Standards-

(1) IN GENERAL- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall require, at a minimum, presentation and verification of the following information before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person:

(A) A photo identity document, except that a non-photo identity document is acceptable if it includes both the person's full legal name and date of birth.

(B) Documentation showing the person's date of birth.

(C) Proof of the person's social security account number or verification that the person is not eligible for a social security account number.

(D) Documentation showing the person's name and address of principal residence.

(2) SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS-

(A) IN GENERAL- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall comply with the minimum standards of this paragraph.

(B) EVIDENCE OF LAWFUL STATUS- A State shall require, before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, valid documentary evidence that the person--

(i) is a citizen of the United States;

(ii) is an alien lawfully admitted for permanent or temporary residence in the United States;

(iii) has conditional permanent resident status in the United States;

(iv) has an approved application for asylum in the United States or has entered into the United States in refugee status;

(v) has a valid, unexpired nonimmigrant visa or nonimmigrant visa status for entry into the United States;

(vi) has a pending application for asylum in the United States;

(vii) has a pending or approved application for temporary protected status in the United States;

(viii) has approved deferred action status; or

(ix) has a pending application for adjustment of status to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States or conditional permanent resident status in the United States.

(C) TEMPORARY DRIVERS' LICENSES AND IDENTIFICATION CARDS-

(i) IN GENERAL- If a person presents evidence under any of clauses (v) through (ix) of subparagraph (B), the State may only issue a temporary driver's license or temporary identification card to the person.

(ii) EXPIRATION DATE- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph shall be valid only during the period of time of the applicant's authorized stay in the United States or, if there is no definite end to the period of authorized stay, a period of one year.

(iii) DISPLAY OF EXPIRATION DATE- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph shall clearly indicate that it is temporary and shall state the date on which it expires.

(iv) RENEWAL- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph may be renewed only upon presentation of valid documentary evidence that the status by which the applicant qualified for the temporary driver's license or temporary identification card has been extended by the Secretary of Homeland Security.

(3) VERIFICATION OF DOCUMENTS- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall implement the following procedures:

(A) Before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, the State shall verify, with the issuing agency, the issuance, validity, and completeness of each document required to be presented by the person under paragraph (1) or (2).

(B) The State shall not accept any foreign document, other than an official passport, to satisfy a requirement of paragraph (1) or (2).

(C) Not later than September 11, 2005, the State shall enter into a memorandum of understanding with the Secretary of Homeland Security to routinely utilize the automated system known as Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements, as provided for by section 404 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (110 Stat. 3009-664), to verify the legal presence status of a person, other than a United States citizen, applying for a driver's license or identification card.

(d) Other Requirements- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall adopt the following practices in the issuance of drivers' licenses and identification cards:

(1) Employ technology to capture digital images of identity source documents so that the images can be retained in electronic storage in a transferable format.

(2) Retain paper copies of source documents for a minimum of 7 years or images of source documents presented for a minimum of 10 years.

(3) Subject each person applying for a driver's license or identification card to mandatory facial image capture.

(4) Establish an effective procedure to confirm or verify a renewing applicant's information.

(5) Confirm with the Social Security Administration a social security account number presented by a person using the full social security account number. In the event that a social security account number is already registered to or associated with another person to which any State has issued a driver's license or identification card, the State shall resolve the discrepancy and take appropriate action.

(6) Refuse to issue a driver's license or identification card to a person holding a driver's license issued by another State without confirmation that the person is terminating or has terminated the driver's license .

(7) Ensure the physical security of locations where drivers' licenses and identification cards are produced and the security of document materials and papers from which drivers' licenses and identification cards are produced.

(8) Subject all persons authorized to manufacture or produce drivers' licenses and identification cards to appropriate security clearance requirements.

(9) Establish fraudulent document recognition training programs for appropriate employees engaged in the issuance of drivers' licenses and identification cards.

(10) Limit the period of validity of all driver's licenses and identification cards that are not temporary to a period that does not exceed 8 years.

(11) In any case in which the State issues a driver's license or identification card that does not satisfy the requirements of this section, ensure that such license or identification card--

(A) clearly states on its face that it may not be accepted by any Federal agency for any official purpose; and

(B) uses a unique design or color indicator to alert Federal agency and other law enforcement personnel that it may not be accepted for any such purpose.

(e) Additional Powers of Secretary- The Secretary, in the Secretary's discretion--

(1) may, in addition to the requirements of subsection (b), prescribe one or more design formats for driver's licenses and identification cards that satisfy the requirements of this section in order--

(A) to protect the national security interests of the United States; and

(B) to allow for clear visual differentiation between categories of driver's licenses and identity cards (such as to differentiate between driver's licenses valid for multi-year terms and temporary driver's licenses); and

(2) may, in addition to the limitations described in subsections (c)(2)(C)(ii) and (d)(10), further limit the validity period of driver's licenses and identification cards in order to provide for periodic confirmation of principal residence address and lawful presence in the United States in a status described in subsection (c)(2)(B).

SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.

(a) In General- To be eligible to receive any grant or other type of financial assistance made available under this title, a State shall participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver license data, known as the `Driver License Agreement', in order to provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other States.

(b) Requirements for Information- A State motor vehicle database shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:

(1) All data fields printed on drivers' licenses and identification cards issued by the State.

(2) Motor vehicle drivers' histories, including motor vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses.

SEC. 204. TRAFFICKING IN AUTHENTICATION FEATURES FOR USE IN FALSE IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENTS.

Section 1028(a)(8) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `false authentication features' and inserting `false or actual authentication features'.

SEC. 205. GRANTS TO STATES.

(a) In General- The Secretary may make grants to a State to assist the State in conforming to the minimum standards set forth in this title.

(b) Authorization of Appropriations- There are authorized to be appropriated to the Secretary for each of the fiscal years 2005 through 2009 such sums as may be necessary to carry out this title.

SEC. 206. AUTHORITY.

(a) Participation of Secretary of Transportation and States- All authority to issue regulations, certify standards, and issue grants under this title shall be carried out by the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation and the States.

(b) Extensions of Deadlines- The Secretary may grant to a State an extension of time to meet the requirements of section 202(a)(1) if the State provides adequate justification for noncompliance.

SEC. 207. REPEAL.

Section 7212 of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-458) is repealed.

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[inquest]

In Ron Paul's world, the way to cure federal judicial activism is to take the federal judiciary and make it unable to rule on any social/civil rights issue. Well, the problem with that is that the same court system that tried to screw with the Pledge of Allegiance is also the same system that guarantees the Boy Scouts their freedom of association.

I can pretty much guarantee you that if this power was taken away from the federal courts, it would be a very great relief to the Boy Scouts' freedom of association.

[Condor51]

***Why MEXICO?***

NO Mexico, NO any foriegn country. Ron Paul is LYING.
Here's the bill: H.R.418 REAL ID Act of 2005

[sdpatriot]

thanks for the link..

boy oh boy ... does Title II of this Bill suck. more bribery and coersion of the States by the Fed Gvt..

when are the States going to stand up and demand the Fed follow the 10th amendment.. ?

[johnb838]

I used to think agreance was not a word but apparently it is.

[sheltonmac]

In Ron Paul's world, the way to cure federal judicial activism is to take the federal judiciary and make it unable to rule on any social/civil rights issue.

And what's wrong with that? According to Alexander Hamilton, the judiciary was to be the "least dangerous" of the three branches of government. When the federal courts start to force things like busing on the states, they have overstepped their boundaries. Even the U.S. Supreme Court doesn't have the power to nullify the 9th and 10th Amendments.

[Condor51]

I'm sorry, I forgot to answer your question....
***Are they getting the same cards as us? ***

1 - NOBODY is getting an "ID" card.
2 - What this Bill does is set a Federal standard for the States to follow as to how they make their DL and state issued ID card.
3 - When its time for you to renew your DL (or state ID), you will get one that is tamper proof and can't be counterfeited. Most states ALREADY do this in that they are no longer laminated, and now have a hologram.

[inquest]

That link isn't working for me. Is it all contained in Post #29, or is there additional information in the link?

[sheltonmac]

The bill would set forth standards for state IDs so that forgery would be easier to detect.

And where does the federal government get the constitutional authority to do such a thing? Certainly not from the Constitution.

Let's also remember that this is the same Ron Paul who believes the answer to judicial activism is to gut the judicial branch to the point that it can't protect any rights, either.

"To say that a bad government must be established for fear of anarchy is really saying that we should kill ourselves for fear of dying." -Richard Henry Lee

How would you solve judicial activism?

[Condor51]

***thanks for the link..***

You're welcome.
I find that Thomas is pretty handy bookmark to have.

There's so much hyperbole, rumors, and out right lies about legislation (Like this article by this Ron Paul character) that its good to read a Bill yourself.

[The Electrician]

Interestingly, if my understanding is correct, Section 102, the portion of the bill dealing with the waiver of laws necessary for improvement of barriers at borders, would seem to give the Secretary of Homeland Security exceedingly broad powers (with respect to constructing certain roads and barriers, including taking of property by the government without compensation) that are not subject to review by any court. Is my understanding correct? Doesn't the Constitution prevent such a thing? Has the Federal Government attempted to exempt the actions of the Executive or other branch of government from judicial review in other bills? Isn't that an unconstitutional encroachment?

[sdpatriot]

SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.


(a) In General- To be eligible to receive any grant or other type of financial assistance made available under this title, a State shall participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver license data, known as the `Driver License Agreement', in order to provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other States.


(b) Requirements for Information- A State motor vehicle database shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:



(1) All data fields printed on drivers' licenses and identification cards issued by the State.




(2) Motor vehicle drivers' histories, including motor vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses.

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this above is BS

SD is passing a Bill through that will allow the sd LE a database on Concealed Carry permits. and THIS above will make that info available to all states and the Feds. this is anti 2nd, anti 4th, and anti 10th, and will be used to abolish or infringe on the 5th. wake up people.