Posted on 02/11/2005 10:55:36 AM PST by Jim Robinson
It's good to be clear. I've essentially "passed" (not voted) on several polls, but only because I think they're incredibly unimportant. One example: "Please rate the President's State of the Union address".
His idea, which is not new, has been severely demonized on this and other forums. It was lightning rod that opened up the 1986 wound.
I can understand it, but we must move on and mass deportation would never be attempted, for more reasons than I can state in ten minutes.
I see some talking about a wall that will not fly either.
People need to sit down and list all the potential unintended consequences for these simple fix ideas.
The sugar analogy is the best one, because everyone can relate to ants. It correlates well to illegal behavior.
Take away the sugar. Make it so that without a permit they cannot expect to ever work, then control the numbers with the permit system.
Punish them with fines if needed and allow them to come and more importantly go as they please.
The border needs to be tightened simultaneously and it may well do the trick, but the entire code and business regs need to be reformed to give it a chance.
The business regs are a key part. That is the sugar and all the businesses are hidden in the underground cash economy.
The cash economy will be and must be a victim of these changes.
I gotta go to sleep and inspect my eyelids. G'nite!
No matter how important the issue an online poll is defacto unimportant. Nevertheless, sometimes entertaining and fun.
I will see once and for all....
I DO NOT support illegal immigration of any kind including ChiCom and other students slipping through the net. I do NOT support illegal flooding our country with invaders across the southern border. I do NOT support amnesty for illegals. I do NOT support ANY welfare benefits for illegal immigrants. I support deportation of illegals as lawbreakers. I DO NOT SUPPORT President Bush's callous disregard for the flood of illegal immigrants problem and his refusal to secure the southern border. I DO NOT SUPPORT Bush's apparent catering to Vincente Fox and the illegals flooding across the southern border. There is a lot I DO support about GWB but his handling of the southern border is NOT one of them and I consider his handling of this situation to be a threat to the security of the republic and an illegal handout to the welfare system of Mexico and El Salvador and Guatemala among others and an open portal for illegal Al Quaeda and Red Chinese spies and provacateurs, drug dealers, thugs and low lifes.
Now, I have said this same thing in more words many times on FR and I haven't been banned yet. We'll see this time. Anyone unsure of my opinions on this question? I will be happy to repeat. And if I am banned, which I consider unlikely, I will post that on FR via friends and in a classified in the WSJ. Now lets just wait it out.
Yep. :-)
The code determines when they file for a card. The Bush plan has not said anything that is not in the code.
Code says that those who cross illegally are prohibited from green card application for a period of years, depending on the degree of the violation.
It is complicated in how the determine degree and pages in length. That will not be changed.
Most of these guys can be enticed back home to apply from Mexico if you stomp them with a fine. Those that don't pay the fine. Plead guilty to a crime. Where is the amnesty. Where is the green card.
Your semantics will not change the definition, which is the 86 which pardoned them and gave then automatic access to a green card. That is amnesty.
your error was in calling RAP ... Music
You seem confused. All I posted was the definition.
Let me try to make it simpler:
I think criminals who illegally cross our border should be punished, not rewarded with jobs and allowed to apply for citizenship.
Are you testing or something.
Posts like yours are not the reason they lost posting priveleges.
It was the cat fights that ensued.
Is this some sort of crevo (Catholic basher) thread? I've not checked, but I will, to see how many got banned and whatnot. I mean come on: almost 2000 posts and not a single ZOT? Hmmmmmm.....
Must be some kind of higher up power influence involved here...
This is the biggest piece of bullpucky I've seen yet...hey mister, ya want intolerance for opposing views? Try DU!
Here's what I found:
Long term illegal residents
Some individuals who have resided illegally in the United States for a long period of time may be eligible for a green card if:Beware - See your immigration attorney before attempting to get a green card through these methods. You may bring your illegal residence in the United States to the attention of the BCIS and be forced into deportation proceedings instead of getting a green card.
- The illegal resident's immediate family members are U.S. citizens and
- The immediate family members would suffer undue hardship were the illegal resident forced to leave.
Source
Isn't it nice how they advise the illegals to see their pettifoggers before attempting this method.
Surely you don't support this?
You are drawing the proverbial line in the sand and waiting for a reaction that you know full well that you will get.
Your line will get crossed.
Those on my side of this can't see the logic in what your espousing. This may be why some will question your motives.
Do you understand what I am saying?
This forum has had loads of purists that have been banned or quit, on many subjects, not just immigration.
Purists draw the line, refuse to listen to alternative or compromise.
It is inconceivable that something of substance is causing the lack of any acceptance to any other alternatives and they refuse to discuss same.
Inconceivable that their is no other motive, and then someone will play the race card or lash out.
I have studied this and looked at possible explanations for some time now.
What is your explanation?
This is the crux of this immigration debate problem. There is no debate between us, because you automatically reject anything that crossed your line.
Basically you are saying that the only acceptable reform is to deport all the illegals to the last and seal the border.
And what you have done, if this idea were to prevail is to guarantee that nothing will be done. Because what you suggest is not possible. Your in a debate, not a pissin contest.
I dunno where you got that or if it is current law. It may be.
In any case, I would not support it. But if it is current code, then it is already being done or has been done.
Crevo ping! This is a decent thread to read in its entirety (as are all crevo threads that go to the 1000 mark at least). Since this thread went twice as far as the best crevo thread, it must be doubly as good as the bestest of the best of all crevo threads...
Alrighty, then, it must be at least as good as the best of the bestests of all Mary Mother of God threads, eh?
I state my position entirely that nobody has been either Zotted or banned.
Awlright, missed me Jim, but I 'fess up, you can ban me now, I am one of these obviously racist opponents of ILLEGAL (as opposed to legal) immigration. My parting shot, amnesty of illegals is a slap in the face of those who wait in line, play by the rules, and come in by the rules. Silly me!
That kind of language is all through the INS or now ICE protocols.
This is why current code is a joke and totally unworkable.
I'm sure someone on my side has told you that, but you probably shut your ears.
The code is a joke.
effort to enforce it are a failure do to loopholes and lawyers who know where they are.
You should see the business regs.
How would they be at risk of being put IN jail? Juries routinely refuse to convict employers.
Routinely? On which ONE case? Where do you get your "facts"? You continually post "facts" like this without a SHRED of evidence to support same.
Dit-dit-dah-dah-dit.....NEWSFLASH: This just in! Poohbah, your opinions are not "facts"
Or do you plan on declaring a "temporary" suspension of the Constitution?
One has to suspend the Constitution to enforce Federal laws? You just keep getting better and better
To ColdHeat
That is the most insane comment I have ever read on a conservative forum. Where did that come from?
The REAL world. Try and think outside the box a little. THAT is where solutions are most often found. If one can't hire people at $5 a hour because there are no $5 an hour workers available, one will hire at $6 or $7 or whatever it takes to keep the doors open. If your competition is also having to hire at $7 an hour, you both stay in business and raise prices accordingly rather than keeping prices artificially low because of "illegally" depressed wages, subsidized by taxpayers through social programs. Or are you contesting the fact that having a $5 an hour manpower pool readily available in a job that previously payed $10, drives wages down?
All the rest was not accurate either. That stuff is all ridiculous, and very much a socialist view of capitalism.
Socialism: Democratic socialists and social democrats both typically advocate at least a welfare state (this means we cover their medical, school, food stamps...)
Capitalism: A common feature in modern capitalist economies is for the State to maintain a certain degree of economic planning in order to stop huge economic fluctuations (like minimum wage, worker's comp, etc.) and additionally to give capitalist economies more longer-term aim.....Likewise, if the amount of money a person can receive on welfare (a 'socialist' program/idea being fully utilized by our invaders) nears or meets the amount they could make by working, the person will have a reduced incentive to work. And when you drive the wages down, guess what happens. The artificially low wages created by illegals take real jobs and turn them into "jobs Americans don't want" and "unemployment" unless these formerly $10 an hour employees want to live 25 to a house at $5 an hour. They then go take a job for $6 an hour from another American, a job that USED to pay $10 an hour and the ripple effect spreads
Employers refuse to relocate here, no matter the enticements, because the labor pool is too shallow in people who can run automated machines that require minimum math skills and ability to key in data, measure length and width accurately and the like. Skill sets are lacking in science, engineering and tech for the service industries that we could get if we had skills to offer.
And we are going to get this from south of the border at $5 an hour? Or do you think our our own people are going to re-train for these jos at $5 an hour, sans "bennies", since that is all the employer is willing to pay in this artifical labor black-market?
I guess you don't realize that a large percentage of illegals are here because they overstayed legal visas and refused to go home. It may well have been their intent from the beginning perhaps, but that would then be the prefered way to circumvent anything you build .
1,000,000 a year by sea? Not likely. If we didn't have to run willy-nilly all over 150,000 Sq. miles of desert it would be much easier to focus more on ports and seaborn points of access. There are an estimated 4.5 mil here who have come here legally and overstayed their visas. That is out of an estimated 20,000,000-28,000,000. So 1 in 5 or 6 is here on an overstayed visa, most of whom would be SKILLED labor or "students", meaning NOT the average 3rd grade "educations" pouring over our southern border. WHAT does this have to do with keeping a large portion of that 1,000,000 a year NEW UNSKILLED ones from coming in? Does this mean that since some number has overstayed their visas we should just give up?
I will catch you on a IMI thread soon, I decided today to get back into the debate. I was forced out by some pretty bad stuff a few months back.
They are all gone now. They got outa line and it was not me who complained. I just leave.
But that is the story today. It came to another head.
The last one got Sabertooth.
They see that capitalism can keep them in power so they control the business through government regs and manipulation. A chicken in every pot. more for the worker!
Marx gave them the idea. Hillary is his protege.
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