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Ear-splitting discovery rocks mammal identity [Evolution, platypus]
news@nature.com ^ | 10 February 2005 | Roxanne Khamsi

Posted on 02/11/2005 6:49:09 AM PST by PatrickHenry

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To: VadeRetro
It's hard to say how the kid's super-muscle mutation would have worked out had it surfaced back in the last Ice Age. The kid might have lorded it over his skinny pack mates, or he might never have made it.

I'm leaning now toward the idea he'd succumb to the toxic effects of ketosis if very lean times ever hit. Breaking down protein for calories is hard work for the liver and kidneys even for people who have some fat reserves in addition.

That's probably why we have myostatin in the first place, to prevent muscle buildup from blocking fat buildup so we don't go into lean times too lean.

Wonderful as muscle is, it's expensive. It costs fat. That never comes up, never matters, now for most of us. This knowledge, once essential, is now hidden.

Fat is cheap. Fat is easy. Fat takes nothing but sitting around watching the game and munching potato chips.

Fat used to be precious. The literature is still replete with references. "Living off the fat of the land." "The fatted calf." Heck, "Fat City" and that's only from the 70s. The "cream" of the crop.

Well, fat used to be harder to do. We have it pretty nice, when you think about it.

301 posted on 02/14/2005 4:36:01 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: DannyTN
"In fact, an evolutionist expert has described today’s platypus as ‘extremely degenerate’ by comparison with its ancestors.1"

So they don't even agree with their own talking points. Someone may have called the platypus "degenerate," but all it means is that is has acquired too many cute specializations. The fossil monotremes tend to be described as more generalized as you go back in time. The platypus has run up a few evolutionary blind alleys and now has very few places it can live.

I guess it's hardly your fault if ICR can't even keep its own talking points straight. (Are you really so screwed up you think this is going to replace mainstream science?)

302 posted on 02/14/2005 4:41:46 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: DannyTN
By the way, South America was part of Gondwanaland. The author of that article is particularly stupid even for a creationist.
303 posted on 02/14/2005 4:44:04 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: DannyTN

Balderdash!


304 posted on 02/14/2005 4:45:33 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: Elsie

Flapdoodle!


305 posted on 02/14/2005 4:46:35 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: shubi
If you wanted to figure out who is the "most evolved", we already know the answer to that. The black races in Africa have the most alleles at the various loci and are the most evolved. In fact, the bulk of genetic diversity is carried by the blacks in Africa.

A strange argument. As I understand it, evolution is theoretically propelled by weeding out diversity within isolated populations by natural selection and genetic drift, the opposite of your attempt at PC.
306 posted on 02/14/2005 4:47:25 PM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: DannyTN
There are also more marsupial species in South America than on any other continent except Australia. Thus we have two lines of evidence--plate tectonics and geographic dispersal of non-swiming species--converging to make a picture. Creationism pretends there's nothing to explain, or that both lines of inference are simply dismissable by some variety of courtroom tricks. "Not ready for prime time" doesn't cover creationism.
307 posted on 02/14/2005 4:50:42 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

"As I understand it, evolution is theoretically propelled by weeding out diversity within isolated populations by natural selection and genetic drift, the opposite of your attempt at PC."

I hope you are not a biologist. Your understanding is almost backwards.

I am the least PC person you know. Does it discomfort you to know that blacks are more evolved than you are? It sounds like you should be on the DUmmie list arguing against Condi and Gonzales.


308 posted on 02/14/2005 4:52:07 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: VadeRetro
"We are on a thread WHICH IS ABOUT a fossil monotreme having ear bones not only less than modern, but less modern than those on a different mammal fossil 80 million years older." - VadeRetro post 299

"The fossil monotremes tend to be described as more generalized as you go back in time." -VadeRetro post 302

"Someone may have called the platypus "degenerate," but all it means is that is has acquired too many cute specializations." -VadeRetro post 302

If you want to call loss of teeth a "cute specialization" instead of a generalization, ok. To me, it's just another case of loss of functionality, that evolutionists insist are examples of added functionality.

And it looks to me that it's your talking points that are in disarray. That and the false talking points you keep wanting to ascribe to Creationists, like significant differences aren't suppose to occur. Degenerative differences and speciation within original genetic potential are part of creationist theory.

I notice you don't have any comments on the fact that evolutionists were wrong about marsupials developing in isolation in austrailia. All that ridicule that Creationist's have endured from evolutionists on how did the marsupials get to Austrailia and only Austrailia, as if that proved anything, just flew back in your faces.

309 posted on 02/14/2005 4:53:00 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: VadeRetro
"We are on a thread WHICH IS ABOUT a fossil monotreme having ear bones not only less than modern, but less modern than those on a different mammal fossil 80 million years older." - VadeRetro post 299

"The fossil monotremes tend to be described as more generalized as you go back in time." -VadeRetro post 302

"Someone may have called the platypus "degenerate," but all it means is that is has acquired too many cute specializations." -VadeRetro post 302

If you want to call loss of teeth a "cute specialization" instead of a DE-generation, ok. To me, it's just another case of loss of functionality, that evolutionists insist are examples of added functionality.

And it looks to me that it's your talking points that are in disarray. That and the false talking points you keep wanting to ascribe to Creationists, like significant differences aren't suppose to occur. Degenerative differences and speciation within original genetic potential are part of creationist theory.

I notice you don't have any comments on the fact that evolutionists were wrong about marsupials developing in isolation in austrailia. All that ridicule that Creationist's have endured from evolutionists on how did the marsupials get to Austrailia and only Austrailia, as if that proved anything, just flew back in your faces.

310 posted on 02/14/2005 4:54:27 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: shubi
"Balderdash!"

I love that game.

311 posted on 02/14/2005 4:56:25 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Ok, go ahead and post some more creationist stuff we have all debunked before.

Come up with some scientific evidence for your position and I will start taking you seriously again.


312 posted on 02/14/2005 4:57:48 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: DannyTN
If you want to call loss of teeth a "cute specialization" instead of a generalization, ok. To me, it's just another case of loss of functionality, that evolutionists insist are examples of added functionality.

You don't lose 'em unless you don't use 'em. Ducks don't have teeth either.

Degenerative differences and speciation within original genetic potential are part of creationist theory.

You have nobody to answer the usual questions from the above bit of sophistry.

I notice you don't have any comments on the fact that evolutionists were wrong about marsupials developing in isolation in austrailia.

Even some boys in TN know that there are possums in North America. Get a clue, son. Marsupials were well established (more or less unchallenged by placentals) on Gondwanaland. They were on all the pieces when it broke up. They reached North America from South America later, after they came into contact.

I don't have time tonight to put you through High School.

313 posted on 02/14/2005 5:13:45 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: DannyTN
All that ridicule that Creationist's have endured from evolutionists on how did the marsupials get to Austrailia and only Austrailia, as if that proved anything, just flew back in your faces.

There are no native marsupials in Eurasia. (They may have originated there, but that's another story. There haven't been any native to there for a long, long time.) Not oppossums. Certainly not those eucalyptus-only-please koalas of Australia and only Australia. So, are all marsupials one created kind? The thylacine and the possum and the koala and the kangaroo and the wombat?

You still have a problem with a koalas (and quite a number of other uniquely located species) until you actually address it. Mt. Ararat is a long way from marsupial country. It certainly isn't in South America or even North America.

314 posted on 02/14/2005 5:26:50 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: DannyTN
You have also not explained how the ear bone change in monotremes (the subject of this thread) is degenerative, considering that most of us mammals think we have better ears than the reptiles. The modern platypus has the expected three ear bones. Old Teinolophos trusleri has one ear bone and some funny grooves and bulges in the jaw.

What's degenerative and how do you know it?

(Answer: First, try to deny. If you can't deny it, it's either degenerative and/or microevolution. What a science!)

315 posted on 02/14/2005 5:35:15 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: shubi
I hope you are not a biologist. Your understanding is almost backwards.

Ah well. It is just a theory anyway.

I am the least PC person you know. Does it discomfort you to know that blacks are more evolved than you are? It sounds like you should be on the DUmmie list arguing against Condi and Gonzales.

I would like to know how you know that I am not Black or that Attorney General Gonzalez is!
316 posted on 02/14/2005 5:46:18 PM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide; shubi
Does it discomfort you to know that blacks are more evolved than you are?

Mr. USOTOS, this guy supposedly teaches college-level biology(IIRC).

317 posted on 02/14/2005 5:52:16 PM PST by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: VadeRetro
... that there are possums in North America.

And on every dinner table in West Virginia.

318 posted on 02/14/2005 5:59:56 PM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: AndrewC

At least I know to capitalize Blacks ;-)


319 posted on 02/14/2005 6:05:00 PM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: xm177e2
There are none so blind, as those who refuse to see. The evidence is in fact overwhelming. That you choose to disregard it does not make it unscientific.

When you show me an empty room, then want to brag about the expensive furniture in it, your complaint is rather empty. I don't choose to disregard anything. I'm looking at the same material - I'm just not going beyond what can factually be stated about the material. You are. And that is your problem. You can't support your conclusions. You present one fact - the existance of a bit of matter (a partial skeleton), and from it you extrapolate a book. There is a limit to what fosilized bone can tell you. And that limit does not give rise to a book. Your suppositions and unfalsifiable conclusions may fill a book; but, that isn't science. I don't disregard what you present. I simply read it, assent to the actual evidence (the bones) and correct the conclusions beyond that by noting there is no support for the conclusion beyond wild supposition and speculation. You want your speculation regarded as fact and assert it as though it is by default. That is the MO of your crowd. And it is improper and unscientific. What's more, it always has been. But you've gotten by with it as a community for so long, that you're insensed that anyone now dares call you on it. Get used to it, it's getting worse every day for you. You'll have to produce results - real results. And IMO, you can't.

Micro-evolution has nothing to do whatsoever with the larger theory? Micro-evolution is the basis for the larger kind.

Just love spinning them wheels in hopes someone will be fooled - don't ya.

320 posted on 02/14/2005 8:12:24 PM PST by Havoc (Reagan was right and so was McKinley. Down with free trade. Hang the traitors high)
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