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Scientists find missing link between whale and its closest relative, the hippo
UC Berkeley News ^
| 24 January 2005
| Robert Sanders, Media Relations
Posted on 02/08/2005 3:50:43 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: Dimensio
People view the universe as accidental for a reason--
To: Ichneumon
Or as the old saying goes, "you can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into in the first place." All of us hate being found wrong in an argument. I know I do, and I have some scars from direct and indirect hits. I tend to post fast and loose.
The difference between myself and a creationist is that I am merely embarrassed when wrong. The creationist is afraid of eternal damnation for saying or believing the wrong thing. This is a hell of a way to go through life.
We got a glimpse of this attitude on the thread about Ernst Mayr -- FReeper who were certain of the state of his soul. The same smirking posts are made about Darwin, by FReeper who seem to know the activities of God in great personal detail.
The real debate here is not about who is right and who is wrong, but about how we form our opinions. Whether our motive is fear or curiosity.
302
posted on
02/08/2005 9:10:37 AM PST
by
js1138
To: Mamzelle
They cannot "interbreed" because of size--a Great Dane pup would kill a papillion mother. This brings a certain surface appeal to your argument, but the gap between type and species is a vast one The point is, with dogs we are observing speciation in action. Dogs at either end of the spectrum cannot inter-breed, whereas dogs that are closer together physically (say, a rottweiler and a standard poodle, imagine what that would look like) can. If we keep doing what we're doing with dogs, down the road the descendants of various breeds will certainly be considered different species.
Remember, we've only been messing with dogs for a few thousand years. Where do you think we'll be a million years from now?
303
posted on
02/08/2005 9:11:05 AM PST
by
Modernman
(What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
To: patriot_wes
Man...it would so suck to have to know all of that!
Strength in ignorance again?
304
posted on
02/08/2005 9:11:11 AM PST
by
Dimensio
(http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
To: Mamzelle
Your second dishonest evasion of the question is noted.
305
posted on
02/08/2005 9:12:13 AM PST
by
Dimensio
(http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
To: Mamzelle
I don't know how life began, and I don't credit these erstwhile Darwin-thumpers who claim to know, either
There you go again ...
306
posted on
02/08/2005 9:12:33 AM PST
by
WildTurkey
(When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
To: Ichneumon
Wake up and learn something about the topic for a change, or for pete's sake, at least stop spreading your ignorance -- the world has more than enough of that commodity already.I deal with the same problem in my field. Sigh.
To: Modernman
re: The point is, with dogs we are observing speciation in action. )))
You could just as easily assert that we are observing extinction in action-- you're assuming that some new thing is going to happen. I see a history of dwindling diversity in species, not expanding. Not that this makes me happy--but in a million years, I wonder if humans will be utterly alone with chickens, sheep and goats.
To: Ichneumon
Very nice post BTW. Will be nice reading while I am in the lab tonight.
To: Physicist
They had a gap in the record. Now they have two gaps. That's progress!
310
posted on
02/08/2005 9:15:30 AM PST
by
RightWhale
(Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
To: Dimensio
So go talk to someone else with your one-sentence magnificats...
To: Mamzelle
A team looking for a new mascot? There are many mules in nature. I think, we once had this conversation. You said there was a mule that was not sterile, and I then inquired..."Who's his baby?" I love this picture:
What I'm getting at here is that speciation isn't black and white. There are blurry dividing lines between species that haven't speciated quite far enough apart. So, a lion can inter-breed with a tiger, but not with a cheetah.
312
posted on
02/08/2005 9:16:12 AM PST
by
Modernman
(What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
To: MojoWire
Does it actually say that He created plants and put them on earth, or does it say just that He created plants. Isn't it possible that plants existed on other planets before the earth existed?
313
posted on
02/08/2005 9:16:22 AM PST
by
stremba
To: patriot_wes
Man...it would so suck to have to know all of that! Another "Ignorance is my strength" placemarker.
314
posted on
02/08/2005 9:17:18 AM PST
by
js1138
To: Mamzelle
So go talk to someone else with your one-sentence magnificats...
I'm not the one who claimed that there are people trying to "prove that gods do not exist" and then failed to show any evidence of anyone attempting any such thing.
Lying about the motivations and goals of scientists does not put you in a very good light.
315
posted on
02/08/2005 9:17:35 AM PST
by
Dimensio
(http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
To: MojoWire; stremba
I'll use the NIV translation of the Bible because it's wording is easier to understand. There are some things that we simply don't know. I could guess and theorize, but that gets a lot of people in trouble. In the end, many of the questions left unanswered are born of pure curiosity. The book of Genesis isn't a blueprint for creation. Why would it need to be? Do we plan to create a new heaven and earth? As I said before, what's important is to recognize who created. Not how. I'll attempt to answer as many of your questions as I can. Please understand that these are still MY readings of scripture and you should ultimately check it out for yourself.
Did God simply snap his fingers to create a physical earth, or did he make it in layers?
I suppose you could say that he created earth in "layers". The first words in the Bible say that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." STOP The earth remained formless, empty, and dark for an undisclosed period of time. We don't know how long the earth remained at this stage before God went about creating light, land and sea, the heavens, and life. This may explain the apparent discrepancy in the earth's age that many point out. I simply don't know. Let me also point out that God spoke things into existence.
And did He simply think an adult Adam into existence? Or did he create Adam as an infant, and then nurture him into adulthood by teaching him how to hunt and survive?
The Bible says that God created Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils. I don't know if Adam was an infant or an adult - it doesn't say.
What about Eve?
The Bible says that God caused Adam to fall into a deep sleep, he removed one of his ribs, and he made Eve out of that rib. At this point, you could speculate that God made Eve as an adult. It doesn't make sense for him to bring Adam an infant and say, "Here's your wife". But this is just speculation, the Bible doesn't say either way.
Did God instruct her on how to procreate?
I don't know.
Did He help Eve physically deliver Cane and Abel, and even cut the umbilical cord, since there were no doctors around to help?
In Genesis 4:1 Eve says, "With the help of the Lord I have brought forth (or have acquired) this man".
And where did Cane and Abel find wives to marry?
There are several theories floating around that attempt to answer that question. Here's mine: Look at Genesis 1:26-31. This is the sixth day and God creates man and woman in his own image and gives them dominion over the earth. THEN go to Genesis 2:7. God creates Adam. Notice that Genesis 1:26 says, "let us make man". Now notice that Genesis chapter 2 refers to Adam as "the man". In other words, I think that the Bible supports the idea that God created other men and women before Adam and Eve came along. The Bible mentions the creation of man on the sixth day but it doesn't mention the creation of Adam and Eve until after the seventh day (when he rested). Why? The first people were created to establish the first of seven dispensations. The first dispensation was Innocence. (The seven dispensations are Innocence, Conscience or Moral Responsibility, Human Government, Promise, Law, Church, and Kingdom) Adam and Eve were used to establish the Edenic Covenant, or test of obedience. If this sounds too kooky let me know. I'm trying to keep this condensed, but I'll elaborate if need be.
How was it that a city East of Eden was already formed when Adam and Eve were the only ones God created?
See the previous explanation.
316
posted on
02/08/2005 9:17:49 AM PST
by
Jaysun
(Nefarious deeds for hire.)
To: Route101
I was thinking more along the lines of Rosie ...
317
posted on
02/08/2005 9:18:14 AM PST
by
BlueNgold
(Feed the Tree .....)
To: houeto
Shoot. I was hoping for something more exciting like the Venus Fly-Trap. Here you go:
318
posted on
02/08/2005 9:19:59 AM PST
by
Modernman
(What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
To: Modernman
Not me, but the people who actually believe that a mammal went to the land, then went back to the water and develped some sort of mechanism to breath underwater or breach the water and breath air, they are the people who lost credibility.
If all you are going to do is point out my lack of desire to over type an answer, then you show you have no argument.
319
posted on
02/08/2005 9:21:03 AM PST
by
RaceBannon
((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
To: Modernman
Yes. Lots of mules. We talked of mules before--and you really need some fertile mules to work this evo thing, since therein lies the most potential to see a new species. That's why I wanted to know about the fertile one of which you once spoke. You know, speaking of barnyards and circus tents, perhaps the fact that there are no leetahs or teetahs is that the right two haven't met yet on a date. Even with equines, mules aren't that easy to bring about.
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