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Mexican, U.S. Officials Reconcile Concerns About Border Violence
The Associated Press ^ | Jan 29, 2005

Posted on 01/29/2005 4:04:42 PM PST by Brian Mosely

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To: FBD; Happy2BMe; FITZ; JustAnotherSavage; MeekOneGOP; potlatch; ntnychik; devolve; Boazo; ...
Thanks for the return comments.
First, my screen name is a misnomer.   I'm neither smart, nor an ass.   I want to consider myself as being decently educated, aware and hopefully street smart.

I lived in the suburbs of Los Angeles, California for the better part of my life, and have my finger somewhat on the pulse on the political happenings there.   A good example, is why ex Gov. Gray Davis being recalled.   Besides him pushing for creeping socialism, he generously tossed 35 billion in state surplus money, that still hasn't been accounted for, and probably never will be!

Next, I'm all for legal, controlled immigration.   But, what has been happening along the Mexican Border is outrageous, and inexcusable for any political party.   There's nothing politically correct when it comes to guarding and/or controlling our borders.   Nor should any foreign government infringe on our sovereignty, or dictate American law and policy, including ACLU types, and as recently suggested by a Mexican official: "the International Court" to overthrow Arizona's prop 200!   BS!!!

I spent about three years in Central and South America.   The people live in incredible filth and poverty and surely deserve better FROM THEIR OWN governments.   If they were treated like human beings, they would stay put, instead of heading North to crash our border for a better life.

 

101 posted on 01/30/2005 1:23:14 PM PST by Smartass (BUSH & CHENEY to 2008 Si vis pacem, para bellum - Por el dedo de Dios se escribió)
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To: Smartass
The people live in incredible filth and poverty and surely deserve better FROM THEIR OWN governments. If they were treated like human beings, they would stay put, instead of heading North to crash our border for a better life.

But then --- just like Bayourod says --- won't have their desperate cheap labor. Imagine businesses having to pay decent wages and maybe offering a couple of benefits to lure employees?? Wouldn't that be a real shame for them?

102 posted on 01/30/2005 1:30:12 PM PST by FITZ
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To: FITZ; bayourod; Happy2BMe
Bayourod, like many other FReepers have good valid points.

Keep in mind, not withstanding other nations, Hondurans, Salvadorians, Costa Ricans, Nicaraguans et al, must first crash the Mexican Border to get to ours.   The Mexican government guards their Southern Border with federal troops, and are not to kind to their neighbors, and in fact, when caught...damn brutal.   If we did the same, the howling would be deafening.

There is no such thing as cheap labor.   Anybody working in the fields, picking or harvesting, should have some kind of benefits, and presently, they are getting ours!   That's the problem.   Border states social services are being taxed and bursting to the breaking point.   For sure, are being paid the minimum wage or above for unskilled labor, that established by congress.   However, that's a separate issue(s) from legal v. illegal immigration, and border control, which can't be justifiably discussed in the same breath.

103 posted on 01/30/2005 2:08:16 PM PST by Smartass (BUSH & CHENEY to 2008 Si vis pacem, para bellum - Por el dedo de Dios se escribió)
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To: Smartass

He speaks with a 'forked tongue' - that one.


104 posted on 01/30/2005 2:50:45 PM PST by Happy2BMe ("Islam fears democracy worse than anything If the imams can't control it - they will kill it.)
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To: Happy2BMe
When was the last time an American went to Mexico and recieved any social welfare benefits, or be allowed to own land.   NEVER.

There were about 150 retired elderly couples that invested in beach front housing in Rosarita Beach, Mexico.   After about two years, a Mexican judge declared that they did not own or have any property rights, and were evicted by armed Mexican Federal Troops.   They lost every nickle they invested in the development.   Received no compensation.   Were basically ripped off, with no legal recourse.   They had to leave Mexico holding their a$$s.   Now this isn't Mexican bashing, but, all things being equal...are not!   Their hand is always out, and the giving is only one way.   So this clown to want us to change our laws, had better first look inwards.

 

105 posted on 01/30/2005 5:44:21 PM PST by Smartass (BUSH & CHENEY to 2008 Si vis pacem, para bellum - Por el dedo de Dios se escribió)
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To: Smartass
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

ALL YOU GRINGOS - Go Try This, Go Ahead - I Dare You! If you have a Death Wish!

* * *

'LAISSEZ-FAIR' POLITICS WILL KILL US BEFORE THE JIHAD DOES

Think About It


106 posted on 01/30/2005 6:21:19 PM PST by Happy2BMe ("Islam fears democracy worse than anything If the imams can't control it - they will kill it.)
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To: Happy2BMe; All

A good article that was missed:


http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-fonte071403.asp
July 14, 2003, 10:00 a.m.
Wrong on the Founders
The Wall Street Journal Independence Day tradition.

By John Fonte

Before 9/11, the Wall Street Journal always used to celebrate Independence Day by publishing an editorial endorsing a constitutional amendment proclaiming that "there shall be open borders." Since the attacks on the United States by foreign enemies who easily penetrated our borders (which were "open" in any objective sense), the Journal has refrained from the explicit promotion of their proposed constitutional amendment.

However, the open-borders ideology continues to haunt the Journal's otherwise sensible editorial pages. On July 3, on the paper's website, assistant editor Brendan Miniter begins his op-ed, "Let Their People Come," with the quotation from the Declaration of Independence that complained about George III's restrictions on European immigration to the American colonies. Miniter then uses this quotation as a launching pad to endorse a "fundamental right" of emigration to America and implies that this "right" is one of the founding principles of our nation. He thus maintains that the "right and necessity to allow people to live and move freely is self-evident indeed."

In fact, exactly the opposite is true. As the Declaration of Independence states our nation is based on " rights " and "consent" — or "government by consent of the governed." Clearly, in American democracy, immigration policy is decided by the "consent of the governed," that is to say, by the American people. There is not — and never has been — a "fundamental right" to immigrate to the United States against the consent of the American people. To suggest otherwise, as the Wall Street Journal editorial page did on July 3, is to ignore the crucial principles of "consent" central to our democratic republic.

Nowhere in their voluminous writings do any of the Founders endorse the idea that everyone in the world has a "fundamental right" to immigrate to the United States. They would have considered such a notion preposterous. The Founding Fathers' views on this subject are best explained by the Claremont Institute's Thomas G. West in Vindicating the Founders in his chapter on immigration.

At the beginning of the chapter, Professor West notes that the United States from the first days of the republic has "always set limits" on immigration and citizenship. Moreover, he argues that:


To say that there is a fundamental right to immigrate is as much as to say that the government of one country is obliged to secure the rights of every person in the world who presents himself and demands it. Such an obligation is by nature both impossible and unjust….a violation of the fundamental terms of the social compact.


On immigration, assimilation, and citizenship naturalization, West finds that the views of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton, Madison, Franklin, John Jay, and Gouverneur Morris are remarkably similar.

First, the Founders believed that the American republic had the right to set the limits and conditions of immigration and eventual citizenship. As Gouverneur Morris stated at the Constitutional Convention in 1787, "every society from a great nation down to a club had the right of declaring the conditions on which new members should be admitted."

Second, they welcomed immigrants, but on the condition that they become good citizens. As George Washington explained, "We shall welcome [them] to a participation of all our rights and privileges, if by decency of conduct they appear to merit the enjoyment."

Third, the Founders insisted on assimilation. Washington wrote to Adams that he worried about immigrants "retain[ing] the language, habits, and principles (good or bad) which they bring with them" and favored "an intermixture with our people [where] they, or their descendants, get assimilated to our customs, measures, [and we] soon become one people."

In short, the Founders maintained (sensibly enough) that immigration/assimilation policy be judged on the basis of national interest, i.e., what was good for America. There is not a scintilla of agreement between the Founders' views and Miniter's position that there is some "fundamental right" of free immigration. (Incidentally, Miniter's position is also rejected by leading libertarians such as Milton Friedman).

For more than 200 years America has been enriched by millions of immigrants who have strengthened our nation. And Miniter is correct to say that there have been benefits in having a generous immigration policy (as, too, there have sometimes been deficits). But these are questions of national policy and national interest that reasonable people can debate, not self-evident moral principles.

The Journal's writers would serve the American public (and mainstream conservatism) better if they produced serious and historically accurate July 4 editorials instead of repeating their annual exercise in self-parody.


107 posted on 01/31/2005 11:16:55 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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