Posted on 01/28/2005 4:28:41 PM PST by metacognative
I'm not sure of my footing here. Help!!!
:
We can't get down to reality, but we may find a more general theory so that the 1000s of particles become just one of something more fundamental. String theory might be it, but it might be a while until the solutions can be tested. There are millions of solutions, all mathematically valid and each gives a different kind of universe with different properties. That's why the talk of multiverses. There is talk of creating a universe of our own that we may migrate to when this one gets old and rundown. We would have to create a suitable portal, wormhole, or meatus when the time comes, and we might have to resort to sending our googol of infobits instead of ourselves, although I don't know if there would be a point to the latter option.
Name an attribute of water that doesn't apply to hydrogen or oxygen.
"Name an attribute of water that doesn't apply to hydrogen or oxygen."
Unlike H2, or O2, both sink in themselves when solid.
Water, otoh, floats.
For evolutionists, this is actually a necessary feature of water. For creationists, water is 'living' too ... very ironic.
Water won't support combustion under daily circumstances. Unless you can find that inventor who made the pill you put in the carburetor.
Yes I am narrowing the focus. My question is, what compelling concept makes it necessary to widen it?
I was trying to illustrate my point by suggesting that matter gets pretty unpredictable at levels of complexity far short of life.
What compelling reason is there to denigrate the concept of emergence? As far as I know, the laws of physics and chemistry do not change when molecules become part of a living thing. What changes is the complexity of the behavior of the thing itself, not its constituents.
I would like to say that the dramatic change in the properties of matter in complex structures is, in my thinking, evidence against design. It seems unlikely that anything less than an omniscient being could anticipate the emergent properties of matter, particularly its behavior in an ecosystem.
That seems to be the underlying point of ID, to illustrate the need for an omniscient being. I'm not in a position to say this isn't the case, but omniscience seems like a dead end to me. How can you be conscious if all of time and space is perceived simultaneously? Rotten luck, an eternity of ennui.
OK, but the question was rhetorical.
If not for life, how could the condition of being wet be known? Are you trying to prove a mindless positive and assert that it is not possible to prove conscious positive?
Again, are there any intrinsic attributes that apply to life that do not apply to water or basic elements?
Please be aware that I am not going to be sucked into a spitting contest over the definition of life. I don't have an absolute definition. Any such definition would draw arbitrary lines in unexplored places.
Are you trying to prove a mindless positive and assert that it is not possible to prove conscious positive?
I have no idea what this means. Consciousness exists. I don't know how it emerges out of matter, but I believe it does. But then I don't believe matter is necessarily mindless. I am not particularly upset by not knowing everything or not being able to explain everything. It's an incentive to explore.
Seems reasonable to me. I'm not clear on the details, but I think along those lines.
I think you should go back and review particle theory. You are deeply confused. At least your post is deeply in error.
Yes. That would be my point. So, what is the point of our difference? For there still seems to be one.
When it comes down to what makes for life, to my way of thinking, the "information added" to the physical laws -- or to use Shannon's precise language, the "reduction of uncertainty in the receiver" -- is all the difference in the world. But you'll notice this is not a material quantity that I'm speaking of here.
Because the argument is ancient, you may tend to spurn it. But here goes anyway:
It is ever necessary and desirable to widen the argument because man will always try to restrict or recast it to fit his own present concerns. This is not a good "bias," if what we seek is a truthful description of the universe. For if we "allow" that man is "the measure," then it seems to me we would have a case of "tail-wag-the-dog" syndrome, a pathological condition the ancients diagnosed as man regarding himself as "the measure of all things." And the fact is (or so it seemed to them, and also to me), Man simply isn't the "measure": He is part and participant in a system that does not depend on him for its truth. That is to say, he is the subject of (i.e., governed by, whether he acknowledges it or not) a "measure" that is not of his own construction. Nor was he even consulted about its form.
Seems a hard fact. But there it is. :^)
Or at least, so it seems to me.
Then you would do me a very great favor by correcting me, where you feel I need correction.
Don't just throw points around, WT. What we need is successful communication.
I don't have time to provide you an education in physics and thermodynamics. You have to crack a few text books yourself. I pointed you in the direction. Take the hint.
Not quite true. A proton or a neutron consists of 3 quarks but none are anti-quarks of the others. The symmetry constraints on quarks are not just +1 or -1. One must also satisfy color and charge constraints. Quarks do have mass. They're also modest; no one has ever seen a bare quark. (Or bear-quark hybrid, for that matter.)
I don't believe ideas or consciousness or qualia (likes, dislikes, pain, pleasure, etc.) would always have a corporeal (spatial/temporal) manifestation even as energy. Mathematical structures such as pi - for instance - are not corporeal, spatial or temporal. Information does not necessarily always have a corporeal manifestation either as it does in the reduction of uncertainty in a molecular machine going from a before state to an after state.
Matter is anything that has mass and occupies space.
One [contemporary] view on matter takes it as all scientifically observable entities whatsoever. Matter can more accurately be defined as the energy that has a low vibratory rate, a compressed energy state. Commonly, the definition is limited to such entities explored by physics.
The definition pursued here is of matter as whatever the smallest, most fundamental entities in physics seem to be.
Thus matter can be seen as material consisting of particles which are fermions and therefore obey the Pauli exclusion principle, which states that no two fermions can be in the same quantum state. Because of this principle, the particles which comprise matter do not all end up in their lowest energy state, and hence it is possible to create stable structures out of fermions. Many of these fermions are atoms and ions and their component parts, subatomic particle
s. In addition, the Pauli exclusion principle ensures that two pieces of matter will not occupy the same location at the same time, and therefore two pieces of matter in which most energy states are filled will tend to collide with each other rather than passing through each other as with energy fields such as light.
The matter that we observe most commonly takes the form of compounds, polymers, alloys, or pure elements. In response to different thermodynamic conditions such as temperature and pressure, matter can exist in different "phases", the most familar of which are solid, liquid, and gas. Others include plasma, superfluid, and Bose-Einstein condensate. When matter changes from one phase to another, it undergoes what is known as a phase transition, a phenomenon studied in the field of thermodynamics.
"Matter" is also used in contrast to form, in the sense of content.
Higgs bosons are hypothetical elementary particles predicted to exist by the Standard Model of particle physics. These bosons are thought to play a rather fundamental role: according to the Standard Model, they are predicted to be the carrier particles of the Higgs field which is thought to permeate the universe and to give mass to other particles. As of January 2005, no experiment has detected the existence of the Higgs. The Higgs field is perceived the same from every direction and is mostly indistinguishable from empty space.
A special article is dedicated to the Higgs mechanism, a physical phenomenon that is responsible for the spontaneous breaking of the electroweak symmetry.
The Higgs boson, sometimes called the God particle, was first predicted in the 1960s by the British physicist Peter Higgs. The Higgs mechanism for giving mass to particles was actually first proposed in the context of solid state physics to explain how particle-like structures in metals can act as if they had an effective mass.
The Higgs boson itself has a characteristic rest-mass. As of 2004, the best estimate for this mass is 117 GeV, with a theoretical upper limit of 251 GeV. Its discovery would make it the heaviest fundamental particle yet found. Particle accelerators have probed energies up to about 115 GeV, and have recorded a small number of events that could be interpreted as resulting from Higgs bosons, but the evidence is as yet inconclusive. It is expected among physicists that the Large Hadron Collider, currently under construction at CERN, will be able to confirm the existence of Higgs bosons.
Since the Higgs field is a scalar field, the Higgs boson has spin zero.
Physics Web: What is the Higgs?
In 1993 the UK's science minister at the time, William Waldegrave, asked physicists to explain in simple terms - and on one side of A4 - what the Higgs boson is, and why they wanted to find it. With a bottle of vintage Champagne on offer for the best explanation, physicists rose to the challenge with analogies that ranged from cocktail parties to space having a "grain" like a piece of wood, albeit in an abstract space rather than real space (Physics World September 1993 pp26-28). In the latter example, particles that travel with the grain have no mass, like the photon, while those that travel against the grain have large masses, like the W and Z bosons.
The direction of the grain in the Higgs field is determined by a process called spontaneous symmetry breaking. In the early universe, the Higgs field looked the same in all directions, but this symmetry was spontaneously broken shortly after the Big Bang, in much the same way the perfect symmetry of a pencil standing on its tip is spontaneously broken when the pencil falls over and defines a direction in space.
Mass is a property of physical objects that, roughly speaking, measures the amount of matter they contain. It is a central concept of classical mechanics and related subjects.
Strictly speaking, there are two different quantities called mass:
Passive gravitational mass is a measure of the strength of an object's interaction with the gravitational field. Within the same gravitational field, an object with a smaller passive gravitational mass experiences a smaller force than an object with a larger passive gravitational mass. (This force is called the weight of the object. In informal usage, the word "weight" is often used synonymously with "mass", because the strength of the gravitational field is roughly constant everywhere on the surface of the Earth. In physics, the two terms are distinct: an object will have a larger weight if it is placed in a stronger gravitational field, but its passive gravitational mass remains unchanged.)
Active gravitational mass is a measure of the strength of the gravitational field due to a particular object. For example, the gravitational field that one experiences on the Moon is weaker than that of the Earth because the Moon has less active gravitational mass.
Form (Lat. forma), in general, refers to the external shape, appearance, configuration of an object, in contrast to the matter or content of which it is composed; thus a speech may contain excellent arguments (the matter may be good), whereas the style, grammar, arrangement (the form) may be bad. "Form is supposed to cover the shape or structure of the work; content its substance, meaning, ideas, or expressive effects." (Middleton 1999, p.141) The term, with its adjective formal and the derived nouns formality and formalism, is hence sometimes contemptuously used for that which is superficial, unessential, hypocritical: chap. xxiii. of Matthew's gospel is a classical instance of the distinction between the formalism of the Pharisaic code and genuine religion. With this may be compared the popular phrases good form and bad form applied to behaviour in society: so format (from the French) is technically used of the shape and size, e.g. of a book (octavo, quarto, etc.) or of a cigarette.
The word form is also applied to certain definite objects: in printing a body of type secured in a chase for printing at one impression (form or forme); a bench without a back, such as is used in schools (perhaps to be compared with the French s'asseoir en forme, to sit in a row); a mould or shape on or in which an object is manufactured; the lair or nest of a hare. From its use in the sense of regulated order comes the application of the term to a class in a school (sixth form, fifth form, etc.); this sense has been explained without sufficient ground as due to the idea of all children in the same class sitting on a single form (bench).
The word has had various usages in philosophy. It has been used to translate the Platonic idea (eidos), the permanent reality which makes a thing what it is, in contrast with the thing's particulars, which are finite and subject to change. Whether Plato understood these forms as actually existent apart from all the particular examples, or as being of the nature of immutable physical laws, is a matter of controversy. For practical purposes, Aristotle was the first to distinguish between matter (hyle) and form (morphe). To Aristotle matter is the undifferentiated primal element: it is rather that from which things develop than a thing in itself. The development of particular things from this germinal matter consists in differentiation, the acquiring of particular forms of which the knowable universe consists (cf. causation for the Aristotelian formal cause). The perfection of the form of a thing is its entelechy in virtue of which it attains its fullest realization of function (De anima, ii. 2). Thus the entelechy of the body is the soul. The origin of the differentiation process is to be sought in a prime mover, i.e. pure form entirely separate from all matter, eternal, unchangeable, operating not by its own activity but by the impulse which its own absolute existence excites in matter.
The Aristotelian conception of form was nominally, though perhaps in most cases unintelligently, adopted by the Scholastics, to whom, however, its origin in the observation of the physical universe was an entirely foreign idea. The most remarkable adaptation is probably that of Aquinas, who distinguished the spiritual world with its subsistent forms (formae separatae) from the material with its inherent forms which exist only in combination with matter. Bacon, returning to the physical standpoint, maintained that all true research must be devoted to the discovery of the real nature or essence of things. His induction searches for the true form of light, heat and so forth, analysing the external form given in perception into simpler forms and their differences. Thus he would collect all possible instances of hot things, and discover that which is present in all, excluding all those qualities which belong accidentally to one or more of the examples investigated: the form of heat is the residuum common to all. Kant transferred the term from the objective to the subjective sphere. All perception is necessarily conditioned by pure forms of sensibility, i.e. space and time: whatever is perceived is perceived as having spatial and temporal relations (see Duration; Kant). These forms are not obtained by abstraction from sensible data, nor are they strictly speaking innate: they are obtained by the very action of the mind from the co-ordination of its sensation.
In cosmology, dark energy is a hypothetical form of energy which permeates all of space and has negative pressure resulting in an effective "repulsive gravitational force". (Michael Turner coined the term dark energy.) Adding dark energy to the standard theory of cosmology (i.e. FLRW metric) is currently the most popular method of accounting for the apparent observations of an accelerating universe as well as a significant portion of the missing mass in the universe. This new standard model of cosmology is named Lambda-CDM model. Two proposed forms of dark energy are the cosmological constant and quintessence, where the former is static and the latter is dynamic. Distinguishing between the two would require high precision measurements of the expansion of the universe to see how the speed of the expansion changes over time. Making such measurements is a topic of current research.
Physics Web: Dark Energy, the suspects
Cosmological constant (w = -1)
Originally introduced by Albert Einstein, it was later suggested by Yakov Zel'dovich that quantum vacuum energy would produce a constant energy density and pressure. However, theoretical predictions yield a cosmological constant that is 120 orders of magnitude higher than the observational value. Regardless of cosmology, quantum vacuum energy exists. Whether the cosmic contribution is in fact zero, or finely tuned, is one of the outstanding challenges in physics.
Quintessence (w > -1)
A form of energy with negative pressure that varies with space and time. Quintessence is dynamic, unlike the cosmological constant, and its average energy density and pressure slowly decay with time. This feature might help to explain the tuning and sudden onset of cosmic acceleration. Modelled as a scalar field, quintessence predicts particle-like excitations with a mass of about 10-33 eV (see Caldwell and Steinhardt in further reading).
Other vacuum energy (w < -1)
Unless we are the victims of a conspiracy of systematic effects, w < -1 is the sign of really exotic physics. In one model, quantum effects of a quintessence-like field lead to modifications of general relativity, while other models suggest that the dark-energy density actually grows with time, possibly causing the universe to end in a catastrophic "big rip". Other novel ideas include an exotic field that causes a cosmological-constant-like acceleration but that varies in space.
Modification of general relativity
Various attempts have been made to modify Einstein's general theory of relativity, and therefore avoid the need for exotic matter to drive the accelerated expansion. While some are difficult to distinguish from quintessence, many predict violations of the equivalence principle (which is the bedrock of general relativity) or departures from the universal 1/r gravitational potential.
Dark matter is matter that cannot be detected by its emitted radiation but whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter such as stars and galaxies. Estimates of the amount of matter in the universe based on gravitational effects consistently suggest that there is far more matter than is directly observable. In addition, the existence of dark matter resolves a number of inconsistencies in the Big Bang theory.
Most of the mass of the universe is believed to exist in this form. Determining the nature of dark matter is also known as the dark matter problem or the missing mass problem, and is one of the most important problems in modern cosmology.
The question of the existence of dark matter may seem irrelevant to our existence here on Earth. However, whether or not dark matter really exists could determine the ultimate fate of the present universe. We know the universe is now expanding because of the red shift that light from distant heavenly bodies exhibits. The amount of ordinary matter seen in the universe is not enough for gravity to stop this expansion, and so the expansion would continue forever in the absence of dark matter. In principle, enough dark matter in the universe could cause the universe's expansion to stop or even reverse (leading to an eventual Big Crunch). In practice, it is currently thought that the dynamics of the universe are dominated by another component, dark energy.
The WMAP team found that the big bang and Inflation theories continue to ring true. The contents of the universe include 4 percent atoms (ordinary matter), 23 percent of an unknown type of dark matter, and 73 percent of a mysterious dark energy. The new measurements even shed light on the nature of the dark energy, which acts as a sort of an anti-gravity.
I have yet to find an example of either of these books contradicting the other. They seem to "go together."
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