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Finding common ground between God and evolution ("Theory is greater than facts)
Seattle Times ^ | Jan 25, 2005 | Froma Harrop

Posted on 01/25/2005 6:15:41 PM PST by gobucks

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To: gobucks
The war against science by religious fanatics goes on.

Has the latter had any victories at all in the last 500 years?

BTW, where does Bin Laden and his buddies stand on evolution?
101 posted on 01/26/2005 5:29:42 AM PST by ml1954
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To: narby; Jessarah; WildTurkey
The problem with 'theistic' evolution is not the animals or plants or gravity. It is man.

Human beings.....specifically created in HIS image, God-breathed, possessing reason and intellect, commanded to rule over the rest of creation.

If one believes that man evolved, and was not created, one does not believe in Scripture, period.

You cannot twist the Bible into man's evolution from animal without denying it's validity in every other area.

I don't know a creationist who doesn't believe there has been evolution within the species. But believing that man evolved from animal is completely contrary to God's word.

102 posted on 01/26/2005 5:39:38 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: anguish
Good point. My response was to decay. Obviously Adam and Eve ate........fruit, at least. ;o)

I won't find out the details until I'm with the Lord in the NEW heaven and the NEW earth...........perhaps, the way it was created in the first place.

103 posted on 01/26/2005 5:43:00 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: ml1954
That was a disgusting attack on Christians who believe God's word.

If you meant to make the connection you seem to be making, you are sick.

104 posted on 01/26/2005 5:44:45 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: WildTurkey

I haven't seen any mention of this in the various threads. Has anyone pointed out that men and women haveequal numbers of ribs and the entire story harks back to a Sumerian tale involving The Lady Who Makes Live, where the word for "makes live" was written and probably sounded the same as the word for rib ?


105 posted on 01/26/2005 5:51:34 AM PST by e p1uribus unum
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To: Rocketman
The term "evangelical" applies to any church that uses the 4 Gospels.

It has been narrowed a bit so that Catholicism is outside the Evangelical orbit, as are many Pentecostal, Reconstructionist, and Unitarian groups.

Some folks think it applies only to Christian bodies that use ONLY the New Testament as a guide to faith and morals, but that's not quite right.

The Evangelical churches were persecuted mightily in the time of Louis XIV. Hundreds of thousands of members escaped France and fled to other nations in Europe and to America. The French government, in a report of some sort, recently noted that in the areas where the Evangelicals were most heavily persecuted (and murdered by the French government) there continue to be few, if any, Evangelical churches.

The French government, to this very day, maintains barriers against the construction of buildings to be used as Evangelical churches of any sort.

106 posted on 01/26/2005 5:52:42 AM PST by muawiyah (Egypt didn't invent civilization time)
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To: PatrickHenry

I already posted something suggesting that mutation likes like a random walk. There are no intrinsic scales for random walks. Structures arise of all sized. For evolutionary theory, these structures not only extend over space, but over time. The example of the convection cells (in hot oil for example) show that seemingly regular structures arise merely by the input of energy. Such structures (from molten rock) can be seen frozen at the Devil's Postpile (California) and the Giant's Causway (Northern Ireland). I've seen both; they look like hexagonal bathroom tile laid out inexactly.

There's no evidence that evolutionary processes are linear. Selection is quite arbitrary. Mutation may have non-linear consequences also.


107 posted on 01/26/2005 6:10:36 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: anguish

Did bacteria and viruses die? Did nails and hair grow? Did the grass eaten by a cow not die in the cow's digestive system?

This is what Creationists want taught in science classes?


108 posted on 01/26/2005 6:12:32 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Strategerist
Relativity is still called a "Theory."

Yes, and most physicists realize that one day relativity could be replaced by something better... just as relativity replaced newtonian physics.

I'm always dismayed by the "scientific theory doesn't mean... like... you know... theory" argument.

Scientific theories are useful. Most branches of scientific study couldn't even exist without theories. But Theories Are Replaceable...

I'm not saying we've yet found the theory to replace evolution... (i.e. We shouldn't be teaching ID in science classrooms.) I'm not even saying for sure that we ever will (but we probably will). But emphasizing that evolution is a scientific theory is not the same as saying "we know for sure that natural selection caused the different species just like we know for sure that [insert favorite theory here] happens". We're sure of neither and probably will never be.

109 posted on 01/26/2005 6:14:11 AM PST by bigLusr (Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur)
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To: ohioWfan
If one believes that man evolved, and was not created, one does not believe in Scripture, period.

Get real. You have no power to decide what faith another believes or does not believe.

110 posted on 01/26/2005 6:19:41 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: ohioWfan

If the shoe fits.


111 posted on 01/26/2005 6:19:48 AM PST by ml1954
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To: e p1uribus unum

No, I haven't seen that.


112 posted on 01/26/2005 6:20:53 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey
I AM real. If you do not believe that man was created in the image of God, separately from animals, you are denying the whole of Scripture, including the words of Christ.

Man was created for fellowship with God. Animals were created to be eaten by man. Man has a soul. Animals do not. Man can reason. Animals cannot.

We all need to study Scripture and pray for understanding as to what passages are literal, for all ages, and which are cultural or allegorical, but the fundamental problem with the theory of evolution, is that it denies the God-breathing, in God's image aspect of man. And if you do that, you cannot believe the whole of Scripture.

113 posted on 01/26/2005 6:27:20 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: ml1954
Explain please.

Everyone, in your view, who believes that God created the heavens and the earth, is a "religious fantatic" and on the same level as a mad man who murders thousands?

That is what you implied. Do you have the courage to state it outright?

114 posted on 01/26/2005 6:29:14 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: gobucks

As a scientist, I can say that the author's statement you quoted is 100% correct.


115 posted on 01/26/2005 6:31:28 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: WildTurkey

Here's a website:

a href=http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/Mesopotamia/Epic_of_gilgamesh/biblical_parallels_in_sumerian_l.htm


116 posted on 01/26/2005 6:34:21 AM PST by e p1uribus unum
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To: ohioWfan
I AM real. If you do not believe that man was created in the image of God, separately from animals, you are denying the whole of Scripture, including the words of Christ.

What happened to evolution? That was the subject. One can believe in evolution and also believe that man was created in the image of God.

Man was created for fellowship with God. Animals were created to be eaten by man. Man has a soul. Animals do not. Man can reason. Animals cannot.

Man was originally a vegetarian and was NOT to eat the animals. Go read Genesis. Only when they had a food shortage did God realize Noah need to eat animals to survive.

117 posted on 01/26/2005 6:38:12 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: ohioWfan
Everyone is entitled to believe what they wish. That's religious freedom.

But science and religion are separate. And most scientists are not atheists.

When a religious belief is contrary to the factual evidence and scientific theory, as has happened often in the past 500 years, to try to force it's teaching on everyone else is a mistake. Some might call it proselytizing.

The track record of science the past 500 years is pretty good. The track record of opponents is pretty poor. And these are both gross understatements.

It's just a short leap from proselytizing to persecution. And from persecution to Bin Laden.
118 posted on 01/26/2005 6:39:11 AM PST by ml1954
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To: ml1954
It's just a short leap from proselytizing to persecution. And from persecution to Bin Laden.

By that logic it's just a short leap from owning a gun to shooting someone with a gun. And from shooting someone with a gun to becoming a mass murderer.

119 posted on 01/26/2005 6:40:54 AM PST by bigLusr (Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur)
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To: bigLusr

It's just a short leap from proselytizing to persecution. And from persecution to Bin Laden.

By that logic it's just a short leap from owning a gun to shooting someone with a gun. And from shooting someone with a gun to becoming a mass murderer.

Ownership of an object is not logically equivalent to attempting to convert others to one's religious beliefs.

120 posted on 01/26/2005 6:54:55 AM PST by ml1954
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