Posted on 01/18/2005 2:29:15 PM PST by rhema
Talk about discrimination: where is the coverage of Norma McCovey's petition that the Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade?
Thoughful article, great picture!
Dan
This whole thing hinges on when is a fetus no longer a lump of human tissue, but has become a seperate person? When is the fetus ensouled?
Does my fingernail have civil rights?
No, but an 8 month old fetus is clearly regarded by the state in some cases as a person, as Scott Peterson was convicted of murder of a person in regards to his unborn baby Connor.
We need a clear and *secular* means of defining what makes a human being human.
Is there such a definition?
How about any person with a functioning brain as indicated in brain-wave patterns?
That would leave abortion optional untill the 8th week or so in which most abortions are performed.
Why not?
Abortion denies children basic civil rights
But FIRST it denies them their right to be born!!!!!!!!!!!
Ping
We are most definitely making progress. The only thing that can stop the momentum is a change in government.
ProLife Ping!
If anyone wants on or off my ProLife Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.
Pro-"choice" liberals really don't care whose rights they are violating or whether abortion is really murder.
"Abortion rights" are little more than the immoral Left trying to make the world safe for bed-hopping and casual sex.
And if plenty of the African-Americans they pretend to care about die, then it's worth it to proctect the sex orgy lifestyle that they are either living now or desperately hope to in the future.
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Why the drop after 1960? (in deaths of women from illegal abortions)
The reasons were new and better antibiotics, better surgery and the establishment of intensive care units in hospitals. This was in the face of a rising population. Between 1967 and 1970 sixteen states legalized abortion. In most it was limited, only for rape, incest and severe fetal handicap (life of mother was legal in all states). There were two big exceptions — California in 1967, and New York in 1970 allowed abortion on demand. Now look at the chart carefully.
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Abortion Statistics - Decision to Have an Abortion (U.S.)
· 25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing
· 21.3% of women cannot afford a baby
· 14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child
· 12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy)
· 10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career
· 7.9% of women want no (more) children
· 3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health
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So how many women’s lives have been saved by abortion?
Only about 3% of abortions since 1972 were reported to be “due to a risk to maternal health.” A reasonable person would recognize that not all of those cases represent a lethal risk. But let’s say they did. That means that nearly 45 million fetuses were butchered to save the lives of about 1.3 million women. Or put another way; 35 babies are killed to save each woman.
Abortion was legal in all 50 states prior to Roe v. Wade in cases of danger to the life of the woman.
"There's only one correct answer to your question, and that is one becomes a separate person at conception."
Then we should have a funeral each month that a sexually active woman has a miscarriage or takes the Pill?
We discuss these questions outside of any context and end up with situations bordering on the absurd.
If human life is ensouled at conception then the Pill is a murder weapon.
Do you really believe that? Do you call for the illegalization of the Pill as you do for abortion?
Many women (and men) who suffer from miscarriage have memorial services for the child they lost. Many people attend these services to support the grieving parents. Why? Because a life that was there, growing, is over, and that's a terrible loss to them.
As for the pill, it does not only work the way you seem to think it does. It's purpose is to prevent ovulation. No egg, no conception. It is true that this doesn't always work, but there's a "back up plan" in that the pill also causes the uterine lining to be unable to support implantation of a fertilized egg. That would be the case you're talking about, and I don't know if anyone can tell you what the actual numbers are as far as which of the two happens more often.
Well, we know the heart is beating at 21 days, and actually brain waves can be detected at 6 weeks. New technology is teaching us more about the miracle in the womb all the time, thank God.
" It is true that this doesn't always work, but there's a "back up plan" in that the pill also causes the uterine lining to be unable to support implantation of a fertilized egg. That would be the case you're talking about, and I don't know if anyone can tell you what the actual numbers are as far as which of the two happens more often."
First, thank you for the level-headed response. That seems rarer these days somehow.
Second point; even if the Pill only prevented the implantation of the fertilized egg once in a few cycles, that would still equate to abortion/murder by your definition, no?
If not, where is the difference?
The answer has to be yes if a fertilized egg is prevented from implanting... Since it was not nature that ended it, as in a miscarriage, what other word could be used? Like I said, I don't know what the incidence is of the pill not working as far as preventing ovulation goes. The IUD works in a similar way. It's supposed to prevent ovulation by disrupting how the sperm travels (?), but it also prevents implantation from happening. It all comes down to when life begins, and how you define the end of that life, be it murder, abortion, death, termination, whatever. The words can change, but the story is the same. Thank you for saying my previous answers to you were level-headed, I hope you think this one is as well.
Look, I am pro-life, and would never agree to abortion under any circumstances.
I just dont think I can make that argument well in a *secular* political system, thats all.
As to what to do about people on life support with no brain function, I dont know, to be honest.
I do know that we are approaching a level of medical technology where people can be kept sustained almost indefinately. When is a person truly dead in defiance of medical efforts otherwise? I dont know.
But it would seem to me that lack of brain activity would indicate that a person is no longer present. Even in sleep, one has brain activity at some level.
But there is so much shouting going on on this topic it is hard to seriously consider other view-points and try to get to the core truths that can be proffessed for a secular electorate.
I just dont know, but it is not so clear to me that the evidence is all on one side only.
But even a right to abortion limited to the first 6 weeks is plenty of time. Could you accept that for a basis in law?
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