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To: newsgatherer

I know people are really passionate about this issue, so I just want to preface my comment by saying that I'm not trying to start an argument, just asking a real question that I don't know the answer to. Okay, here goes:

The 2nd Amendment says the people have the right to keep and bear arms. At the time the 2nd was ratified, that meant, I guess, rifles, muskets, etc., (I don't know too much about firearm history) as those were the weapons used by militias as well as for hunting and personal protection. As firearms technology expanded, the 2nd amendment seems to have expanded as well (aargh...a living Constitution?) Now there seems to be a right to own weapons that are much more advanced (handguns, high-powered rifles, "assault" weapons) than those used in the late 1700s. But there's also some limit on what arms the people are allowed to keep and bear. For example, I can't keep a cannon or a shoulder rocket or a nuclear missile in my backyard for protection (or hunting), even though those are arguably "arms" as well.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is: how and why do we decide which arms are and aren't allowed under the 2nd Amendment?

Thanks.


6 posted on 01/18/2005 11:48:29 AM PST by nyg4168
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To: nyg4168

Gun grabbers are increasingly trying to separate the right to keep and bear arms from its constitutional underpinnings. To everyone but liberals and gun grabbers the word militia implies a body organized for military use. The Supreme Court Miller decision of 1939 held that the militia was 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."

To begin with, only the national government was represented at the trial. With nobody arguing to the contrary, the court followed standard court procedure and assumed that the law was constitutional until proven otherwise. If both sides were present, the outcome may have been much different.

However, since only one party showed up, the case will stand in the court records as is. As to the militia, Mr. Justice McReynolds related the beliefs of the Founding Fathers when commenting historically about the Second Amendment. He stated that, ". . .The common view was that adequate defense of country and laws could be secured through the militia- civilians primarily, soldiers on occasion.

"The significance attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense.

It is clear that the firearms that are most suited for modern-day militia use are those semi automatic military pattern weapons that the yellow press calls "assault weapons". Since nations such as the Swiss trust their citizenry with true selective fire assault rifles, it seems to me that this country ought to be at least able to trust its law-abiding citizenry with the semi automatic version.

Self-defense is a vital corollary benefit of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. But its primary constitutional reason for being is for service in the well-regulated militia which is necessary to the security of a free state. WE must be prepared to maintain that security against even our own forces that are responding to the orders of a tyrannical government, and the only viable way to counter a standing army's qualitative advantage is with a huge quantitative one. Don't let the gun grabbers and their politician allies separate us from the constitutional reason for the right to keep and bear arms. Miltary pattern weapons are precisly the weapons that should be MOST constitutionally protected. Even defenders of the right often neglect the constitutional aspect of it, and concentrate on their near non-existent use in crime.

We need to constantly remind the people what the militia in the 2nd amendment is REALLY for..... A citizen body organized for military purposes and by extension, logically equipped with weapons of military utility. Just consider that the founders of our nation had just finished defeating the greatest military power on the planet, thanks in no small part to a citizen militia, armed with military weapons such as the smooth bore Brown Bess musket, and often technologically superior rifled muskets. It is the height of absurdity to think that the second amendment in the Bill of Rights is primarily concerned with shooting bunny rabbits.

If we don't constantly emphasize the constitutional reasons for the Second Amendment than we shall surely lose it, because hunting, while a worthy enterprise, is too trivial a reason to maintain it has a constitutional protection. We need to emphasize to our hunting bretheren that maintenance of the second amendment's constitutional rationale serves to protect their rights to continue to own firearms for hunting. The second amendment is literally the final check for the preservation of our republic from the depredations of untrammeled tyranny.


169 posted on 01/18/2005 6:14:42 PM PST by DMZFrank
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To: nyg4168
I guess what I'm trying to ask is: how and why do we decide which arms are and aren't allowed under the 2nd Amendment?

At the time the second amendment was passed and ratified, individuals could and did own their own field artillery pieces. They also owned ships armed with (many) similar cannon.

IOW there were no restrictions. There are no restrictions now, if the second amendment is read a written. It says "arms", not "militia arms" (although militias had those cannon and later rockets as well) or "small arms" or "individual weapons". It also says "infringed", which means limited, broken into, in any way. No gun or weapons control laws pass muster by this reckoning. Want to ban nukes? Fine amend the Constitution, don't ignore it.

177 posted on 01/18/2005 8:26:03 PM PST by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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To: nyg4168
I guess what I'm trying to ask is: how and why do we decide which arms are and aren't allowed under the 2nd Amendment?

A 1938 or 39 Supreme Court Case declared that weapons of the Militia are weapons common to the one carrried and used in the military.

So, in answer to your question, the weapons that are covered by the 2nd are the ones commonly carried by oyur US Military troops today, this would include all of the so called 'assault weapons'.

207 posted on 01/19/2005 4:39:56 AM PST by newsgatherer
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To: nyg4168
I guess what I'm trying to ask is: how and why do we decide which arms are and aren't allowed under the 2nd Amendment?

If it's a weapon that can be used to kill, especially government types, it's legal. That was the whole point of the 2nd Amendment. We, the people, reserve the right to armed insurrection.
227 posted on 01/19/2005 7:02:34 AM PST by dyed_in_the_wool ("Man's character is his destiny" - Heracleitus)
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To: nyg4168
" I can't keep a cannon or a shoulder rocket or a nuclear missile in my backyard for protection"

Actually, I think you can own a cannon lol.

287 posted on 01/19/2005 8:58:23 AM PST by KoRn
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To: nyg4168

The right to keep and bear, as ot is worded, is absolute. I have a right to keep nuclear weapons in my garage. That does not provide me the financing to keep nuclear weapons in my garage, however.


455 posted on 01/20/2005 3:25:56 PM PST by ThanhPhero ( Nguoi hanh huong den La Vang)
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