Catholic Bishop Kidnapped in Mosul! (Per WMAL in DC)

WMAL | 1/17/2005 | Pyro7480

[FreeReign]

Of all the countries in the Middle East, Iraq was one of the safest for Christians who were allowed to go about their business.

Assyrian Christians were persecuted in Northern Iraq under Saddam. "Arabization" of the North was Saddam's way of neutralizing the North, just like Saddam tried to neutralize the Shiia in the South by supporting the Christians in the South.

Next time, listen to the Pope, instead of telling him to shut the *#*! up.

You don't speak for the Pope. Aren't you projecting your objections to the war onto the Pope.

BTW, are you implying that the president said STFU to the Pope?

The rewrite of history is alive and well. Even here at FreeRepublic.

[Destro]

More evidence that Saddam-supporting Sunnis???

[FreeReign]

"but towards the end of his reign, he was definitely beginning to see the benefits of a closer relationship with Muslim extremism in the ME."

Catch 22 - guess what drove him and his regime to that relationsip?

Poor Saddam was driven to a closer relationship to Muslim extremists.

[kosta50]

The Muslims have told everyone that there can be no peaceful coexistence between Islamic and non-islamic societies and no one seems to believe them. Curious, especially in light of the events that are well known to us, and anecdotes such as the one shared by Kolokotronis.

Muslims are allowed to lie to the infidel and deceive them. They are doing it, all of them, even when they smile. Islam recognizes only one nation -- Islam -- all the rest are infidels who are to be converted one way or another. They would if they could.

But let's not forget that our myopia and lack of understanding (no excuse there) has built up and strengthened Saudi Arabia and Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Our pro-islamic policies of the 1990's have succeeded in Muslim empowerment in the Balkans, evidenced in Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia and soon to be in Greece. Our arm twisting has forced Germany to change its citizenship laws so that overnight millions of ethnic Turks became "Germans". Liberal stupidity allowed various Muslim groups into Scandinavia -- at first a few hundred, not there are cities in Sweden and Noway full of Muslims.

All this is our doing. Playing opportunistic games rather than seeing long term vision of the future. We have no awakened a sleeping monster -- 1 billion strong.

[Destro]

livius is upset at my statement about the status of Iraqi Christians under Bush (we are still officially the occupying power under domestic and international law) then under Saddam.

Nowhere did any anti-Catholic sentiment enter into this thread by me. Do not mistake my playful sparring regarding theological issues as anti-Catholic sentiments - and those are usually confined to the religion section where such discussions are encouraged.

Because I dared expose a Bush to scorn, livius chose to blacken my name and reputation - calling me a Muslim terrorist sympathizer and other such falsehoods.

When the 'bushbots' (and I don't know if livius is one but in this case he is acting like one) can not refute an argument they choose to turn to type and hurl defaming insults.

[narses]

pING.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

You need a new history book. Quickly.

[Destro]

It is not the Ba'athists who are doing this against Christians - most Christians were Ba'athists.

[narses]

"The results of Lepanto liberated not one Christian land under Islam."

Wow. It STOPPED Radical Islam from taking over Europe. Are you suggesting that losing Lepanto would have been equal to winning Lepanto?

[narses]

" never in all the bloody reign of Saddam did he carry out pogroms against Christians (or Iraqi Jews for that matter)"

Horespuckey. The Ba'athists killed or ran out of Iraq almost all of the Iraq jews. His pogroms against the jews and other minorities are fact. Your statements are just wrong.

[Destro]

Not at all - thank God for Lepanto - but after Lepanto the Turks still advanced and gained territories. What saved Western Europe and Eastern Europe were two things - the colonies of the New World and the rise of the Russian empire.

Southern Europe would not be liberated by any Western or Eastern nation but had go it along - mostly because the West feared Russia would gain there and they supported the sick man of Europe - the Turks. Protestants were at fault, Catholics were at fault, Orthodox were at fault, secularists were at fault for keeping Islam in Europe for so long.

[narses]

"Keep rewriting history Destro."

I like his howler about the Jews under Saddam. Yow-za! And then Lepanto did nothing. Yeah, sure.

[narses]

"Not at all - thank God for Lepanto ..."

Indeed. And yet your npost seemed to denigrate that God given victory. That, coupled with your way over the top assertions regarding Jews in Iraq leave your posts in real question, imho.

[Destro]

You might be correct regarding the state of the Jews in Iraq. I confused the plight of Iraqi Jews to the Jews of Iran.

[ArmyTeach]

What did you mean there?

[Destro]

I don't consider Lepanto a God given voctory - just a victory.

[narses]

Page 29

The Baghdad Hangings, Baghdad 1969

IRAQI JEWISH MARTYRS 30TH ANNIVERSARY

Speech by Percy Gourgey, MBE

Chairman: Jews of Arab Lands Committee

Thirty years ago today 9 innocent Jews were publicly hanged in Baghdad's so-called 'Liberation Square,' falsely accused of spying for Israel. This atrocity shocked the civilised world and focused world attention on the cause of Jews of Arab Lands with all that implies especially in terms of human rights.

In London the day after the hangings with lurid photographs in the press, there was a mass protest demonstration outside the Iraqi Embassy in Kensington, London of over 5,000 people, organised by the Board of Deputies, the Spanish & Portuguese Synagogue and other communal bodies. So effective was it that the Iraqi authorities summoned the British ambassador in Baghdad to complain about it and he replied that Britain was a free, democratic country and people were free to express their sense of outrage at such incidents.

At the time, Hassan al-Bakr was President of Iraq and Saddam Hussein was his right-hand man, whose Ba'ath Party had seized power in a military coup six months before. The Jewish community in Baghdad traced its origins to Babylonian times, 2,500 years ago making immense contributions to the development of Judaism through the Babylonian Talmud, the Religious academies, fruitful exchange of rabbis and scholars with Spain, and subsequently. In fact, the modern Baghdad is about 190 miles from the ancient Babylon and Iraq's President Saddam Hussein had plans to develop it as a major tourist attraction, which was nullified by his invasion of Kuwait in August 1990, and the ongoing crisis caused by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

This service is a Kiddush Hashem and reflects great honour on the martyrs and all present here this evening. The Psalm 137 read earlier refers specifically to the Babylonian community, beginning: 'there by the waters of Babylon, we hanged our harps on the willows and wept at the remembrance of Zion.' Later in the Psalm are the words, 'If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her skill' which Dr. Theodor Herzl used as the rallying cry for the establishment in 1948. Two months before the 1969 hangings, the World Jewish Congress was warning of the impending tragedy.

Following are extracts of a statement to the Maariv newspaper in Tel-Aviv in March 1991 made by Mrs Selima Gubbay, widow of Fuad Gubbay one of the martyrs, after Iraqi Scud missiles attacked Israel. Israel which had not joined the coalition to drive Iraq out of Kuwait, in accordance with UN resolutions.

'Fuad and I were so happy when suddenly our lives were torn apart. One day four Iraqi officers in a blue Volkswagen drove into our home in Basra. They went straight to the air conditioners and pulled out the transformers. 'These are transmitters,' they shouted, 'you are spying for Israel.' Fuad was roughed up when he protested. Our younger son, David, was picked up and thrown against the railings when he tried to kiss his father. He cut himself, and his face was full of blood. The blood was an evil omen of the future. It was 1968 and I was four months pregnant. Fuad was taken away to a jail in Baghdad. Eventually, he was put on trial with other Jews, all accused of spying for Israel. The trial was broadcasted live on radio and television. Fuad pleaded not guilty. I travelled from Basra to Baghdad to see him in prison. When I got there they pushed me into a room beat me up and kicked me out. In the next room, separated only by a thin wall, the warders were telling Fuad, 'your wife is on the other side of the wall. She's pregnant. If you don't admit your guilt, we're going to rape her, and afterwards open her stomach and cut up the child.'

'The next day during the broadcast of the trial, I heard Fuad pleading guilty, admitting that on such and such days, he was here and there, sending secrets to Israel. When I checked the dates, I realised that Fuad had been with me and the children all of those times. He had made up the story in order to save us. On the morning of January 27, 1969, the streets of Baghdad were even more noisy and crowded than usual. It was the day of the hangings. A day of national celebration. I could hear the neighbours shouting enthusiastically, 'Hang the Israeli spies.' Dancers were brought from far and wide to dance under the gallows. There were free rides on the buses and trams so that people could come and celebrate under the corpses. And what was all the celebration about? The Iraqi nation was taking its collective revenge for defeat of a division on the Jordan front in the Six Day War, and that is how Iraqi television was broadcasting pictures of 9 hanging Jewish corpses, among them my husband Fuad, all innocent people. The loudspeakers announced that from 4 o'clock that afternoon, the bodies would be brought down so that the mob could deal with them in the streets. I returned to Basra and people, including Jews, avoided me for fear of being linked with my husband's so-called activities.'

Mrs Gubbay then described how she fled to Israel with her children in July 1971.

Over 50 more Jews were, after 1969, executed or died through torture in jail. Martyrdom is, unfortunately, not a new phenomenon in Jewish history. But the Jewish People, because of its adherence to the eternal Torah, has acquired the characteristic of eternity. This is exemplified now by our beloved State of Israel and the survival of the Jewish People in all lands of freedom and democracy. May we go from strength to strength, mechayil lechayil.

Rabbi Dr. Abraham Levy looks on as a candle is being lit by David Khalastchy who was deputy Chairman of the Jewish Council of Iraq at the time.

Other articles relating to the Baghdad Hangings :

30th Anniversary of Iraqi Jews executed in Baghdad in 1969

Abu Zuhair speaks out of his experience of imprisonment and torture

Address by Meer Basri

Baghdad Butchery

 

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[FreeReign]

People on this thread who lack objectivity are not telling the whole story about the Assyrian Christians and Saddam.

ABC News | Leela Jacinto | Nov. 6 | Excerpt: Human rights groups say the Assyrians — like the Kurds — have suffered under Saddam's systematic attempts to "Arabize" the north, a process that includes driving ethnic minorities from their lands and seizing some of their properties, especially in the strategic, oil-rich northern region bordering the Kurdish enclave. "The Iraqi government has also forced ethnic minorities such as the Assyrians, the Kurds and the Turkomen to sign 'national correction forms' that require them to renounce their ethnic identities and declare themselves to be Arabs," says Hania Mufti of Human Rights Watch. "In a way, it is a form of ethnic cleansing by clearing an area of its ethnic minorities." Unlike the Shiite Muslim majority concentrated in southern Iraq and the empowered Sunni Muslims primarily based around Baghdad, the Kurds, Assyrians and Turkomen comprise Iraq's non-Arab populations — a group whose loyalties have always been a cause for Saddam's concern. | End Excerpt

Link

[txrangerette]

That is exactly what you are doing, name-calling and hurling insults, by calling people BUSHBOTS. Don't cry for me, Argentina...er...uh...that is, don't cry for Destro. You got what you dish out.

I don't assume you are anti-Catholic. But I say your pining away for the days when Saddam "left the Christians alone" WHILE starting two wars, paying the families of suicide bombers against Israelis, gassing the Kurds, committing Genocide against the Marsh Arabs, killing, raping and torturing the Shia, and putting in excess of 300,000 Iraqi men, women and children, including babies and infants, in MASS GRAVES, is so utterly morally bankrupt and offensive, there are no words for such vileness of thought.

Deal with it.

[narses]

So God did NOT work in favor of Victory at Lepanto?