Apple Macs: Objects of devotion

BBC ^ | 1/13/05

[rintense]

I was just looking at this as well. Are these cuties compatible with wireless internet? I don't see a slot for a card.

[Petronski]

Don't get me wrong, I think the ibook is a thing of beauty. I prefer PC hardware because I can tweak to my hearts content, including incremental home-installed upgrades using commodity hardware.

I'm just making a couple of observations about the miniMac.

All that being said, I still think they're going to sell like hotcakes....along with kvm switches, if you get my drift.

[Wooly]

Let's clear up something
1. Macs are excellent high quality computers that have a very easy learning curve and the user does not need to know anything about the operation of the computer to use it. (I am not talking about using programs, just the basic working of the computer and the OS)
2. PCs can or cannot be High Quality computers, but the user needs to know something about the workings of the Operating system. Unfortunately most people don't want to learn about them or they assume they know everything.
3. A Virus or a Trojan Horse is a program and like any program to work it needs to be executed. And since most PC users are dumb as hell when it comes to this they click on it an infect their computers. MAC users can be just as dumb and many are just like PC users, but since the average virus writer is just slightly smarter than the average PC user, he doesn't know how to write a program that will run under UNIX.
4. MAC Users do have attitudes much like those people they called Yuppies in the early 80s who drove a BMW 318i.
5. PC Users spent more time learning how to use their toaster oven than learning how to use their high end $350 E-Machine.
6. Both MAC and PC Users who think they are smart, still use AOl for their Internet and both make excuses as to why they don't change. The best one is that AOL makes the Internet so much easier.
7. Both MAC and PC users who put each other down, probably are in the group generally identified as twelve o'clock flashers. (Every electronic device in their house that has a clock is still flashing 12:00 because they will not read the manual on how to set it or they cannot understand what is written)

[Question_Assumptions]

Updating a computer is the same way, treat it as routine and it bites you.

PCs, maybe. Macs, no. Not only do I install every update from Apple without thinking twice about it, my wife's mother basically said, "Ever time it says to update, I just click OK and type my password," and I didn't wince or have any concern. This is part of what I mean by PC users being so used to something not working that they spend a lot of time worrying about things that simply are not a concern in the Mac world. Really. I'm not pulling your leg. In fact, I feel pretty much the same way about Red Hat updates, too. Macs and Linux have made me so trusting that I told our official IT guy at work that I installed the recommended Windows Updates and he looked at me like I was nuts. How do people live with machines like that? Ugh!

A computer is nothing but a box of electronics ran by a number crunching program. It doesn't screw itself up, the operator owner does that by not being familiar with what they are doing and taking chances without protecting themselves.

Macs do a pretty good job of not letting users screw them up, nor does Apple screw them up by releasing bad updates. Why can Apple do what Microsoft can't? Because they control the hardware as well as the software. The Mac OS doesn't have to worry about whether Mystery Taiwainese Controller Card 241 is installed or conflicts with Mystery Mexican Graphics Card 381. In fact, if the Mac starts acting flakey for any reason, there is a hardware analysis disk included with every Mac that not only checks the basics but runs diagnostics on the video chipset, logic board, and controllers and tells you if they are all working properly or not.

I bet that probably less than 1 percent of you have a backup of your computer's boot drive and of the 1 percent that do, less than 1 percent of you have not updated it. And many of you use these computers for really important stuff. (I have three seperate back up external drives)

I don't really need to back up the whole "boot drive" because there aren't a lot of settings at that level that I'm all that worried about. Worse comes to worse, I can reinstall the OS and my Applications (all of which are legit and licensed), restore my backed up user files, run the automated updater, and I'm good to go. And, no, that doesn't take days. Maybe a night or two. I know, because when I updated to 10.3, I did a clean install and wiped the old drive to save space. It probably takes me longer to patch the Applications (including MS Office, which requires a few) than to get everything else going.

[Question_Assumptions]

Macs are not designed to need a lot of tweaking, which I suppose is a bad thing if that's what you enjoy. They are meant to "just work". And I honestly think this move could add a few percentage points to Apple's market share.

As for the keyboard and mouse, the user can always get a hub if it's a big issue. Is that a neat solution? No. But it's a solution. And if you look at any low-cost PC, you'll find the same sorts of trade offs. How many low-cost Dells, for example, include a Firewire port or include a graphics card with dedicated memory? If I had to guess, though, I could imagine later Macs in this line with at least a pair of USB ports on the front. Between digital cameras and USB flash drives (all my friend seem to be getting them), they'll probably be demand and the price for including that hardware will drop.

[Poincare]

...anytime I go into a Mac store the only people in it are homosexuals and/or comic book store guys.

Perforce which be you?

[Petronski]

I think there will be more than a few people who get one of these, and a KVM switch, and run the minimac and PC side-by-side, on the same KVM, just to experiment...to get the feet wet.

I can see myself doing that, maybe, but only the $600 model.

How many low-cost Dells, for example, include a Firewire port or include a graphics card with dedicated memory?

I have a Dell with onboard video that cannot be turned off!!! How much do you think that sucked when I tried to upgrade the video? (Molto sucko!) That ought to be actionable, frankly.

[daviddennis]

Most modern PCs I'm aware of have the video chip, ethernet and modem on the motherboard, so the situation would be exactly the same with them. I haven't seen a modem card in years.

Modern electronics is awfully reliable. It's been ages since I've had a major hardware failure on any of my machines, Mac or PC.

D

[Question_Assumptions]

It probably has something to do with the fact that anytime I go into a Mac store the only people in it are homosexuals and/or comic book store guys.

Try a different mall, then. I've never noticed that problem in any of the Apple stores that I've been in, including the two that I've visited during a big OS release night when they were filed with Mac users. Of course I could also point out that homosexuals often have good taste in products and comic book guys do often have good taste in technology. Then again, I also drive a VW and read some comic books so I would say that.

[daviddennis]

Sorry for replying to you twice - I didn't realize both of these messages were written by the same person.

If you're in a major urban area, go to your local Apple store and sidle up to the Genius Bar. They'll help you with your problems -- for free.

Pretty darn cool, no?

D

[Rodney King]

Perforce which be you?

The guy wondering what the hell is going on.

[daviddennis]

Poor comparison. You appear to be comparing a single-processor machine with a dual. The dual will run smoother even if it doesn't have the same absolute performance level.

However, my question to you is, "Which machine runs Final Cut Pro and Motion?" The Mac.

Therefore, the best machine for my needs is, well, the Mac. Not to mention the sheer ugliness and poor design included for free in every copy of Windows. I wouldn't use the PC as my primary computer if you paid me to do it.

Just wondering ... have you ever used a Mac? There's a reason Mac users are loyal. Apple charges us a lot but they give us a lot, too. We'll well treated by a company that cares deeply about the hardware and software design of their computers, instead of trying to find the cheapest possible components and slam them together in the cheapest possible way.

D

[Petronski]

I think there will be more than a few people who get one of these, and a KVM switch, and run the minimac and PC side-by-side, on the same KVM, just to experiment...to get the feet wet.

I can see myself doing that, maybe, but only the $600 model.

How many low-cost Dells, for example, include a Firewire port or include a graphics card with dedicated memory?

I have a Dell with onboard video that cannot be turned off!!! How much do you think that sucked when I tried to upgrade the video? (Molto sucko!) That ought to be actionable, frankly.

[Petronski]

Whoops, DSL-hiccup doppelposten! Well, I do feel pretty strongly about that last bit. ;O)

[Question_Assumptions]

You should take a look at this page to get a feel for Apple's philosophy about putting in hardware that's good enough so you won't need to upgrade it.

[Wooly]

I totally disagree with the idea that something is so good that you don't need or want to upgrade.
When I bought my ATI ALL-In-Wonder 9600XT it was the best out there (8 Months ago) yet there have been several improvements from then to now.
Intergrated on-board video is never as good as that of an add-in card, MAC or PC, and you are always better off if you have an upgrade ability for the video.

[Question_Assumptions]

I totally disagree with the idea that something is so good that you don't need or want to upgrade.

You may want to upgrade but you generally will never need to. The iBook I'm using right now is 3-4 years old. I've upgraded the hard drive. The only thing I wish I could upgrade is the video card but I don't really need to upgrade it. By the time I really need to upgrade the video, I'll probably really need to upgrade the whole iBook.

When I bought my ATI ALL-In-Wonder 9600XT it was the best out there (8 Months ago) yet there have been several improvements from then to now. Intergrated on-board video is never as good as that of an add-in card, MAC or PC, and you are always better off if you have an upgrade ability for the video.

If you really need to upgrade, Apple sells towers. But you need to remember that unlike PCs, Mac software is written for those all-in-one Macs in mind so they don't become obsolete quite as quickly as they do in the PC world. As for "integrated on-board video", you are right. That's why Apple doesn't use the cheap integrated solution that many cheap PCs use and include an ATI chipset with a dedicated 32MB of memory, even in that cheap $499 Mac mini. And don't miss the reply above about the cheap Dell where you can't turn the integrated video off.

[papertyger]

Well, all I have to say is that this is 2005, you are living in the 1950's. You don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing. It's time to move on.

My aren't you the poster-child for mindless, adolescent cliches? But I hardly think it's "time to move on."

Television seems to have quite a handy little cottage industry going these days. There's a whole crop of new shows in the mold of "Nanny 911" that do nothing but go in and show how abysmally inept "2005" parents are, because they don't know how to inculcate simple manners and civility in their children. Invariably, the parents lives have become a living hell, because their children are running the house, and the parents are clueless on how to take it back.

I've yet to see a Southern home featured on such shows.

[Wooly]

I don't know if it is the same with a MAC, but most of the time the 32MB of dedicated Memory is just reserved system RAM which is not as good as actually having VIDRAM.
I am no fan of retail computers, including MACs and I build all of my on, plus on average I have built 2 machines per month for the last five years, for other people. I know about hardware quality and the ins and outs of Windows. Apple builds a quality product, but I can build a better, faster machine for less. But then again a MAC is like a Mercedes whereas I build race cars.
I have no problems with MAC users as long as they have respect for me, even though I have the greatest MAC flame there is (Do you know what the most popular subject is on a MAC User's Forum? Barney! (Due to the fact that MACs are used in so many K thru 12 schools) Of course I also blacklist people and will not work on their machines if they do not learn about them.
Computers are like any tool, depending on what you are doing one may be better for you than the other, but neither will do everything the best.

[rwfromkansas]

The local newspaper runs on Macs and the suckers crash all the time.

So much for Macs being more stable.

For the college newspaper, we use PC's. No crashes.