Texas Begins a Huge Highway Project; Not All Are Happy

The New York Times ^ | January 1, 2005 | THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

[deport]

The free roads will be allowed to deteriorate

---

Pretty much sop now......... so what's different?

[Paleo Conservative]

"Who's gonna pay for it?...... your taxes?"

One fact that few people know (or remember). 98% of the Interstate Highway system was built with taxes.

And quite a bit of your taxes went to buy votes in other states to elect 'RAT politicians like Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.

[BobL]

"Another thing is Congress should repeal the Davis-Bacon act that forces contractors to pay union wages for public construction."

Jackpot!! We agree. $30 per hour to hold a sign up, when a college kid would do it for $6. Maybe if we did that we could about double our productivity with the same tax dollars.


"Texas is lucky if it gets back 80% of the money Texans paid into federal highway taxes."

Back to disagreement. So, we blow off public road building and get back 0% of what we pay to the feds (taking this reasoning to its logical conclusion). I'm not sure that it's really such a great bargain.

[miliantnutcase]

Just wait until all those illegals get their liscenses! Muhahahaha

[Dog Gone]

I don't know whether toll roads help or hurt with this idea, but the idea itself is a brilliant one.

It probably won't become a reality during my lifetime unless I start living a lot more healthfully, but this is exactly what we need in order to continue our economic growth in future decades.

[Paleo Conservative]

As to the "free" roads - the governor could show some leadership, for once, and propose a reasonable increase in the gas tax - just to catch up with inflation. Heck, even the Republicans in the US House voted to increase the gas tax (last year). They had some courage (the dorks in the Senate shot it down, however).

And traditionally South Texas pays in taxes but gets less than its fair share of spending. Why shouldn't the people who actually benefit from a road be the ones that pay for it?

[BobL]

" And quite a bit of your taxes went to buy votes in other states to elect 'RAT politicians like Ted Kennedy and John Kerry."

No argument from me on that. The Big Dig was almost as bad as this sham is going to be. But again, we lose everything from the feds if we give up on publicly funded highways - which our governor apparently has decided for us. Yet we will still pay that $0.18 per gallon gas tax.

[narby]

I forget the details of that toll road that went north to 635. I wasn't around when they built it, but it was obviously back when there was nothing around. When I was there in the early 80's, there were houses right up against it, but no business activity at all.

That's probably a bad example.

A better one was the toll road from Ft Worth to Dallas. I lived there right after they took down the toll booths, and businesses were just beginning to start up. There still weren't that many, because the toll road didn't have many off ramps. While the other east-west freeways had all kinds of businesses already.

The funny example is the toll road along Memorial Rd south of Edmond Oklahoma. There are several large shopping areas and a mall along it. But the vast majority of the traffic is along the free side roads that parallel the toll road. The toll highway is practically empty, while the traffic shuttles from stoplight to stoplight right beside it.

Stupid.

[BobL]

"The free roads will be allowed to deteriorate

Pretty much sop now......... so what's different?"


The state, for the next 50 years will be contractually bound to REQUIRE that the free roads deteriorate if Cintra squeezes Perry the same way they squeezed Canada (and believe me, Perry will sign whatever Cintra wants, given his re-election problems - he just won't let us see the details until later).

In other words, we lose our control even over the roads that we built and paid for.

[FreeReign]

Texas has embarked on a project to build superhighways so large and so complex that they will make ordinary Interstates look like cowpaths.

Does Texas still have those nighttime 45mph speed limits on their wide-open interstates?

[Paleo Conservative]

The toll highway is practically empty, while the traffic shuttles from stoplight to stoplight right beside it.

They should retime the lights to slow down traffic on the frontage roads.

[G32]

"Does Texas still have those nighttime 45mph speed limits on their wide-open interstates?"

Usually it's like 70 Day/60 Night.

[narby]

Why shouldn't the people who actually benefit from a road be the ones that pay for it?

Everyone bennefits from free highways, even if you live many many miles away from it, and perhaps never even travel on it.

Add up the additional cost of groceries driven over stoplight to stoplight roads for starters. It's not a coincidence that food costs more in rural areas where travel costs are more.

Good cheap transportation is what keeps us in jobs. It's one of the few things I appreciate from government.

Check out Europe, that discurages cars by $4-5 dollar/gal fuel. Their economy has been slower than ours for decades, and this is one major reason.

[chief_bigfoot]

Be careful what you wish for...http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/s_288437.html
"Expensive projects inflate tolls, gas tax"-Pittsburgh Tribune-Review Jan. 2, 2005

[BobL]

"Why shouldn't the people who actually benefit from a road be the ones that pay for it?"

On a per vehicle basis, a freeway doesn't cost any more than a surface street (remember, there are a LOT more cars per day using a freeway).

Assuming that you don't argue that point too strongly, then shouldn't everyone pay the same amount per mile to drive on any road, rather than totally soaking the people who have to travel longer distances, just because it's much easier to dig into their pockets?

That's the bottom line here with toll roads - you're soaking the people that are easy to reach, rather than distributing the cost across the board evenly. On that note, I wouldn't object to a mileage tax, providing that met a few basic conditions:

1) All money collected has to go to roads
2) No congestion pricing
3) REAL privacy protection.

I don't have a problem with charging people to drive, I have a problem when it's applied grossly unevenly.


(btw, thanks for putting up with my ranting, toll roads really, really, get under my skin - I may need another hit of Prozac soon)

[FreeReign]

Usually it's like 70 Day/60 Night.

You're probably right. It just seemed like 45mph. Especially after getting my only speeding ticket on a wide open Texas Interstate -- at night.

[narby]

They should retime the lights to slow down traffic on the frontage roads.

So, how many shares of Cintra do you own?

This is the kind of heavy handed government control that I really wouldn't stand for.

[Paleo Conservative]

Everyone bennefits from free highways, even if you live many many miles away from it, and perhaps never even travel on it.

Like I really benefit from an improvement to bridges in Chappaquiddick.

[BobL]

"Be careful what you wish for...http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/s_288437.html
"Expensive projects inflate tolls, gas tax"-Pittsburgh Tribune-Review Jan. 2, 2005"

...also keep in mind that the State of Pennesylvania has been licking its chops over turning I-80 into a toll road. Federal law has prevented the conversion - but that may change real soon.

I-80 is presently a freeway running the length of the state, parallel to the PA Turnpike (but in the north). It is a rough road to drive (I've driven it many, many, times), but, for some reason, it is VERY popular with truckers. Anyone care to guess why?

[BobL]

"So, how many shares of Cintra do you own?"

In reality, I couldn't think of a better investment if Perry gets re-elected. We should get our piece of the action. You can bet his guys do. If we do real well, we may make enough to be able to afford to action drive on these elephants.

"This is the kind of heavy handed government control that I really wouldn't stand for."

If you think for a moment think that Cintra's non-compete clauses will allow functional frontage roads, you're in CATO-land. If the government builds this road (tolls or not), at least the possibility exists for functional frontage roads. If Cintra builds it - not a prayer.