In the beginning . . . Adam walked with dinosaurs [Creationist Park]

Telegraph.co.uk ^ | 02 January 2005 | James Langton

[shubi]

I am afraid it is you who are playing games with words.

You must understand allele frequency change in populations to understand evolution. Evolution is not simply "change".

So that we can continue this discussion at a higher level, it would be beneficial to tell us your understanding of alleles and how they work in individuals and populations.

[js1138]

His response, which was deleted by the mod, struck me as hard of heart ...

I've had a post deleted for that reason. Sometimes the temptation to be witty overcomes our good judgement.

[shubi]

I am not perfect like the eggman lol

[js1138]

Eyewitnesses. Military aerial photos. Satellite imagery

Then you no doubt know the exact coordinates.

[js1138]

I agree that figurative language is describing a literal reality.

My question is, how do you know it is figurative?

[Ciexyz]

what do the prophets have to say about the gap between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1.2 ?

[billyboyjohn]

(I personally know a missionary living in Turkey who has been to it and seen it with his own eyes. )


Wow, thats amazing!

[Hank Rearden]

Ned Flanders does Disneyland.

Sounds like lotsa fun. Zzzzzzzzzzt.

[Doctor Stochastic]

My question is, how do you know it is figurative?

Isn't your screen name about 2/3 figurative an 1/3 literal?

[Doctor Stochastic]

If you post the coordinates, I'll try to get a picture.

[bondserv]

My question is, how do you know it is figurative?

Isa 28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

Gen 3:13-14
14 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

[bondserv]

Sorry, here are some more for your consideration.

Eze 28:13
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[Thatcherite]

I personally know a missionary living in Turkey who has been to it and seen it with his own eyes. Now ain't that a kick in the pants.........

And I have the Brooklyn Bridge for sale right here, one day only, cash offers only. First decent offer gets it. Buyer collects.

[Thatcherite]

So which is it? Is “evolution” a fact, and consequently, will never change? Alternately, is “evolution” a theory created to explain facts and will change as new facts are discovered or its predictions fail to align as well some potential, competing theory? Unless you are playing games with semantics, it is one, or the other, not both.

Unfortunately it is both, because the same word is used for two things. The fact of evolution is what we see in the fossil record, DNA comparisons with the phylogenetic tree, nested hierarchy, homologies, common inherited junk DNA across species boundaries etc etc. The evidence for this fact is considered absolutely overwhelming by biologists. Like the fact of gravity where we see objects all over our solar system obeying Newtons laws of motion as modified by Einsteins theory of relativity.

For gravity until recently there was no corresponding theory to go with the facts observed by Newton. Darwin's contribution was to both point out the fact of evolution, and explain it with a theory that was pretty good for the state of knowledge at that time; ie fundamentally correct as far as we can see, descent with modification through natural selection and geographic isolation. That theory has been revised in detail as more data has come in (eg Darwin knew nothing of the genetic mechanism whereby favourable changes are not diluted in the population, that contribution came from Mendel, and Mendel's work was further explained by our modern knowledge of DNA).

Biologists continue to debate the exact mechanisms of the theory a lot (as happens with all scientific theories as we continually improve our understanding of the universe), and sometimes creationists mischievously or mistakenly misinterpret such debates as implying lack of confidence in the fact of evolution.

I hope that makes the fact/theory issue a little clearer for you.

[Just mythoughts]

"Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"


AH HAH!!!! FIGURATIVELY speaking that OLD SERPENT is the DEVIL.

[RightOnline]

Cute, but rather adolescent. Now go do your homework, son, then come back and talk to me.

[Thatcherite]

I am glad to be called an adolescent by you. Name-calling is the refuge of those who have no evidence to back up their case.

Let me know when you've got some physical evidence that Noah's ark ever existed, and when you've got some physical evidence that a global inundation happened in the last 6,000 years, and when you've managed to explain the numerous logical absurdities in the Noah myth. I'll recap some of them for you (and please don't waste everyone's bandwidth by posting non-answers from AiG in reply):

. Where did the water come from?

. Where did it go to?

. Why is there no evidence of the flood?

. How could a 450ft boat conceivably store a global ecology, along with food for a year?

. How could 8 people look after all the creatures? (exercise, feeding, mucking out etc) Check your answer with a zoo-keeper, and bear in mind that a zoo uses a huge number of external contractors for many of its services.

. How did the species get to the ark? (with particular reference to special diets, climate requirements etc)

. How did the species get back from the ark to their current location? (with particular reference to the above + ocean crossings)

. How did 4 men and 4 women build a 450ft wooden boat?

. Why didn't it rot while they were building it (if it took more than a few months)?

. Why didn't a 450ft wooden boat fall apart the moment it encountered a light swell? (even now with modern naval engineering techniques such a thing could not be built)

. Why didn't everybody die in the noxious atmosphere with all those animals in a completely enclosed space with no signiificant ventilation?

. How were the vast quantities of animal faeces and urine disposed of?

. How did Noah + family look after between 2,000,000 and 30,000,000 insect species?

. Were there dinosaurs on the ark?

. If not why did Noah disobey God and not load them?

. Whose job was it to muck out the Sauropods? (My money is on Ham)

. Was the flood fresh or salt?

. Depending on your answer to the above how did Noah look after the fresh/salt fish?

. If the flood was fresh and Noah was looking after the salt fish how did he cope with the ones that require enormous pressure to survive?

. If the flood was salt then how quickly did the land become fertile as the waters receded?

. Where did the new topsoil come from? (hint, topsoil requires live earthworms)

. What did the herbivores eat immediately after the waters receded?

. What did the animals whose diet grows on trees eat after the waters receded?

. What did the predators eat for the first few years after the waters receded whilst the prey animals were rebuilding their population level?

. Why is there no DNA bottleneck evident in the last 10,000 years?

. If you believe that the geological column was laid down by the flood then how did coral beds get into the middle of it, and how do you explain angular uncormities?

. Why do several independent techniques used by geologists, paleontologists, physicists, astronomers, and biologists to determine the history of the earth give concordant answers that are in complete conflict with the flood story?

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Harry Harrison has a series of books based on this premise.
West of Eden, Winter in Eden and Return to Eden.

[js1138]

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth...

How do you know if this is literal or figurative?

[Just mythoughts]

"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth..."


"How do you know if this is literal or figurative?"


When did the casting happen?? Could it be we have a history lesson planted, describing why the earth 'became' without out form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep, all those unnumbered days ago?