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Locked on 03/31/2005 8:32:43 AM PST by Admin Moderator, reason:

Too much Catholic bashing.



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Vatican hit by new row over WW2 role
www.mg.co.za ^ | 29 December 2004 | SA

Posted on 12/29/2004 7:23:24 AM PST by Ginifer

click here to read article


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1 posted on 12/29/2004 7:23:25 AM PST by Ginifer
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To: Ginifer

btw, the novel "Michel, Michel", by Robert Lewis, is an excellent portrayal of this situation in post-war France--of a Jewish child entrusted to a (in this case loving) gentile family,
whose distant relatives try to reclaim him after the war.


2 posted on 12/29/2004 7:30:02 AM PST by CondorFlight
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To: CondorFlight
Thx for the info. I will buy the book to read the story.
3 posted on 12/29/2004 7:34:44 AM PST by Ginifer
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To: Ginifer

Seems to be backwards when compared to Christian principles - it makes more sense to send the saved out among the unsaved so they have an opportunity to make a positive impact. Just goes to show the problem with a religion being devised by men, rather than just following the Word of God as laid out in the Bible.


4 posted on 12/29/2004 7:41:51 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: Ginifer
Your source is a leftist website, certainly not unwilling to trash the Catholic Church at any opportunity.

We should wait for concurrence on this story before jumping offside. However, the practice does fit with Pius IX absconding with a Jewish boy and keeping him from his parents after the Pope discovered he had been baptized.

The question would be, did the Church advocate that Gypsies or baptized unbelievers also be kept from their parents after the war, or were Jews specifically targeted?

5 posted on 12/29/2004 7:42:04 AM PST by sinkspur ("How dare you presume to tell God what He cannot do" God Himself)
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To: Ginifer; american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...
I personally know a Jewish woman who, as a young child, was taken into an Italian convent, to protect her from the Naziis. To this day, she attests that the sisters never imposed their faith on her.

Was the Catholic Church Silent During the Holocaust?

Catholic Ping - please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


6 posted on 12/29/2004 7:49:51 AM PST by NYer ("Blessed be He who by His love has given life to all." - final prayer of St. Charbel)
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To: Ginifer

This is silly. The Church should not send children to unknown institutions, who are ethnically Jewish, after being baptized and brought up Christian. Many Jewish children were reclaimed by parents after the war, and those orphaned were brought up by the Church. This letter may or may not say what is reported here.


7 posted on 12/29/2004 7:57:11 AM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: NYer

Italy, thank God, was not France!


8 posted on 12/29/2004 7:58:33 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: Ginifer
...they saved those children...
9 posted on 12/29/2004 7:59:57 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: Grzegorz 246
They may have saved them, but they didn't own them.
10 posted on 12/29/2004 8:02:22 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: sinkspur
"Your source is a leftist website, certainly not unwilling to trash the Catholic Church at any opportunity."

The website may be leftist...but if you research this subject you will find that there are truths out there. Here are a few sites to look at and a book you might want to read by Mark Aarons, John Loftus.

http://hist.academic.claremontmckenna.edu/jpetropoulos/holocaust/aftermathintro.htm
http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/the_vatican.htm (has lots of articles dealing with this subject.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html



Unholy Trinity: How the Vatican's Nazi Networks Betrayed Western Intelligence to the Soviets
by Mark Aarons, John Loftus
11 posted on 12/29/2004 8:19:37 AM PST by Ginifer
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To: Grzegorz 246

They may have "saved" those children, but how would you feel if it was your child and was not returned to you?


12 posted on 12/29/2004 8:23:23 AM PST by Ginifer
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To: Ginifer

The story has been covered by a number of papers and UPI. The letter and diary could still be fakes, not suggesting that either, but the story isn't a function of the source.


13 posted on 12/29/2004 8:25:13 AM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: Grzegorz 246
...they saved those children...

That's true, but in most of the western world refusing to return children to their parents, or even to family members, for any reason would be more referred to as kidnapping.

14 posted on 12/29/2004 8:26:47 AM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: Ginifer

Hatred of Catholics - one of the still acceptable prejudices.


15 posted on 12/29/2004 8:35:13 AM PST by No_Outcome_But_Victory (Today's established church: The stifling coercive theology of P.C. enforced by a secular episcopate.)
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To: No_Outcome_But_Victory; NYer; SJackson
Hatred of Catholics - one of the still acceptable prejudices.

Sure is. We've had these debates on FR before on this topic. It eventually spills out. The Church saved many Jewish and other targeted people from the Nazis. They couldn't save them all. I have to automatically question the article because it contains the word "French". (aka heretical socialists, who embraced the Nazis during WWII)

16 posted on 12/29/2004 8:47:27 AM PST by TheSpottedOwl ("In the Kingdom of the Deluded, the Most Outrageous Liar is King".)
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To: No_Outcome_But_Victory

I suppose the Catholic Church is not being destroyed from the inside by liberals fast enough for their liking.


17 posted on 12/29/2004 8:48:08 AM PST by Jaded (Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. - Mark Twain)
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To: No_Outcome_But_Victory
Hatred of Catholics - one of the still acceptable prejudices.

How is the article, or the story contained therein, expressive of hatred of Catholics?

18 posted on 12/29/2004 8:48:52 AM PST by malakhi
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To: TheSpottedOwl
The Church saved many Jewish and other targeted people from the Nazis. They couldn't save them all.

And if the church, afterwards, did indeed refuse to return children to their parents or next-of-kin, would that be okay with you?

19 posted on 12/29/2004 8:50:08 AM PST by malakhi
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To: NYer


Well, there you go.
It's better to be dead than Catholic. (sarcasm abounds)


20 posted on 12/29/2004 8:50:51 AM PST by onyx (A BLESSED & MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL.)
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