Tough Assignment: Teaching Evolution To Fundamentalists

Ft. Wayne Journal Gazette ^ | 03 December 2004 | SHARON BEGLEY

[general_re]

physics.

[broadsword]

As a Catholic, I don't feel obliged to believe that God created the universe 6,000 years ago. Geology and astrophysics and the evident age of many species make that idea hard to support. But frankly, the Theory of Evolution is full of holes. It's not a matter of religious belief in my case, it's a matter of bad science.

Amen to that. But if the fundies want to believe and teach their children the 6,000 year thing, let them. It's not going to hurt them. The atheists are the ones shoving their crap down everybody's throat and crying about religion being shoved down their throats when it is not happening. Punks!

[Michael_Michaelangelo]

[general_re]

First, they make an "appeal to authority", that is to say that their belief must be true because the mainstream scientific community says so.

No, that is not a logical fallacy. A logical fallacy would be an appeal to inappropriate authority. We do not question the doctor's authority to speak about medical matters - similarly, it is entirely appropriate to cite scientists as authorities on science. If we were to cite inappropriate authorities on matters of medicine or science - such as a lawyer, pastor, or auto mechanic - then we would have committed a fallacy, but not until then.

This was, I feel compelled to point out, the second sentence in your novella, which does not seem to bode well for the quality of the remainder.

[Junior]

Do some frickin' research.

Conservation of Angular Momentum

The angular momentum of an isolated system remains constant in both magnitude and direction. The angular momentum is defined as the product of the moment of inertia I and the angular velocity. The angular momentum is a vector quantity and the vector sum of the angular momenta of the parts of an isolated system is constant. This puts a strong constraint on the types of rotational motions which can occur in an isolated system. If one part of the system is given an angular momentum in a given direction, then some other part or parts of the system must simultaneously be given exactly the same angular momentum in the opposite direction. As far as we can tell, conservation of angular momentum is an absolute symmetry of nature. That is, we do not know of anything in nature that violates it.

Please note: The above does not say everything has to be spinning in the same direction. It says that any change in the rotation of an object within a system must be accompanied by a change in the rotation of another object in that system.

Your pissant version of the Conservation of Angular Momentum can be shot down simply by looking at some of the retrograde moons in the Solar System.

[js1138]

Are you saying "appeal to authority" is a fallacy?

[Doctor Stochastic]

Why do you equate being black to being a creationist?

[Havoc]

Which is a more reliable guide to truth: authority or evidence?

This isn't hard. Infering something does not make it true, at best it makes the inference a possibility. The mere notion of the possibility does not make it fact. Yet this is exactly what you are trying to pull - the bunch of you. Lee H. Oswald didn't act alone. The evidence is there to support it, so I infer it. That alone doesn't make it true. How you can't see that is beyond me save that God has truly blinded you so that you'll believe your own lies. You can't otherwise be that stupid.

[WildTurkey]

Geez, someone asks you for evidence of a 'soul' and you go ballistic. Guess you don't like being exposed as someone without support for your positions.

He also goes off on his "Stalin" and/or "Hitler" ties when he gets into a corner. Mostly he just goes off.

[chronic_loser]

Proof posiive that bright men can make incredibly dumbass statements. Einstein has both feet planted firmly in the air on that statement. So tell us, dumbass, what you find wrong with it ...>>> sorry, was afk and missed your reply/question. Einstein simply made an assumption that certain things were of value without positing ANY basis for assigning value to them. Withhout a reference point, any statement that mankind "should" do this or that is an absurdity. Furthermore, it is impermissible to "cheat" and add some value like survival of the species. There is NO reason why survival of the human race (or the entire planet, for that matter) should take on moral significance. We are cosmic belches, burped up by a dead universe, going nowhere, with no ultimate differences when the last nebulae have burned out, as to whether we acted with kindness or cruelty. Everything is meaningless. That is why I sneer when some kid who has had philosophy 101 prates about the religious being "afraid to face the cold hard facts." Rather, it is the irreligious who is afraid to face the clear implications of his own worldview and continues to object as though life has meaning. The reason you will become incensed if I piss in your soup is not that you don't like the taste of urine. It is because you rightly perceive that as an assault on your dignity. However, " dignity " is an absurdity in a world without God. Einstein was no different than anyone else in that respect. Lots of bright people can't live consistently with their worldviews, especially if their worldview is in cosmic revolt against the Creator.

[general_re]

Cast your lot as equivalent to the oppression of black people, et voila - you are also an oppressed minority who deserves political consideration. Seems kind of odd that creationists would borrow tactics from the gay marriage lobby, but there it is.

[longshadow]

"Festival of the Conservation of Belligerent Ignorance"

[Havoc]

The angular momentum of an isolated system remains constant in both magnitude and direction.

This would include an insignificant speck of nothing spinning and exploding into everything.

It says that any change in the rotation of an object within a system must be accompanied by a change in the rotation of another object in that system.

So you can read but you've no idea what it actually says - essentially. Take up billiards.

[chronic_loser]

Proof posiive that bright men can make incredibly dumbass statements. Einstein has both feet planted firmly in the air on that statement. So tell us, dumbass, what you find wrong with it ...>>> sorry, was afk and missed your reply/question. Einstein simply made an assumption that certain things were of value without positing ANY basis for assigning value to them. Withhout a reference point, any statement that mankind "should" do this or that is an absurdity. Furthermore, it is impermissible to "cheat" and add some value like survival of the species. There is NO reason why survival of the human race (or the entire planet, for that matter) should take on moral significance. We are cosmic belches, burped up by a dead universe, going nowhere, with no ultimate differences when the last nebulae have burned out, as to whether we acted with kindness or cruelty. Everything is meaningless. That is why I sneer when some kid who has had philosophy 101 prates about the religious being "afraid to face the cold hard facts." Rather, it is the irreligious who is afraid to face the clear implications of his own worldview and continues to object as though life has meaning. The reason you will become incensed if I piss in your soup is not that you don't like the taste of urine. It is because you rightly perceive that as an assault on your dignity. However, " dignity " is an absurdity in a world without God. Einstein was no different than anyone else in that respect. Lots of bright people can't live consistently with their worldviews, especially if their worldview is in cosmic revolt against the Creator.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

"It pains me to suggest that my religious brothers are telling falsehoods" - I feeeeel your pain

"denying science makes us [Conservative Christians] look stupid" - if it 'pains him to suggest' above, this must kill him...

"denying science" - Wonder what he thinks of those who deny God?

"People should not feel they have to deny reality in order to experience their faith" - It is like this guy is in my head. As a person of faith, I wake every morning, deny reality, and head out into this world.

A lot of denying going on...

PatrickHenry - I like this Richard Colling. He says what some of us have been saying around here for years.

He is like our (conservative, devout, fundy - I think they hit all the 'talking points') own little John McCain. He will keep saying it as long as people keep repeating it...

[Doctor Stochastic]

No creationist has criticized the idea that momentum conservation requires all planets to spin the same way. I assume that they thus support this idea.

[Wallace T.]

Insofar as creationism is a core position held by fundamentalist and evangelical Christians, who represent about 20-25% of the American population, slurs upon the intelligence or learning ability of creationists is as bigoted as making an attack upon the intelligence or learning ability of African-Americans, who are about 12-13% of all Americans.

[longshadow]

Cast your lot as equivalent to the oppression of black people, et voila - you are also an oppressed minority who deserves political consideration. Seems kind of odd that creationists would borrow tactics from the gay marriage lobby, but there it is.

"Victimhood should be escaped, not celebrated." - Economist Thomas Sowell

[Junior]

This would include an insignificant speck of nothing spinning and exploding into everything.

Ah, the old, "I can't answer what you posted so I'm going to take it off on a tangent" strategy. We've run into this from creationists on a regular basis.

[js1138]

This isn't hard.

I'm glad to hear that. Maybe you will answer the question now.

I can make the question simpler. If your brother is arrested for murder and there are no other witnesses, which do you believe, fingerprints plus powder burns on your brother's hand plus a videotape, or your brother's testimony that he didn't do it?