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WHETHER THE SECOND AMENDMENT SECURES AN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT
United States Department of Justice - Office of Legal Counsel ^ | August 24, 2004 | DOJ

Posted on 12/17/2004 4:36:19 PM PST by TERMINATTOR

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To: superskunk
I see your point and I could accept Clinton's parsing of language if it wasn't so obviously self serving.

Actually, the part that seemed absurdly self-serving was when he was suggesting that if he'd performed cunnilingus that would have been 'having sex', but receiving felatio was not; if he'd simply said that he thought the question referred solely to coital intercourse, he would have been just as fine under that definition. On the other hand, I'm loath to really complain that he didn't add more activities to the 'not really sex' column.

FYI: In the biblical context (or at least in context of the culture of that time) a virgin was simply an unmarried woman. Having not 'known' a man was just assumed.

If that were the case, why the explicit language regarding the "tokens of virginity"? Also, it is stated that a man who lies with an unmarried woman must take her as his wife unless her father refuses, but must pay the bride-price regardless. If a man refuses to let his daughter marry a man with whom she is known to have laid, that would not make the woman be a virgin despite her being unmarried.

41 posted on 12/17/2004 6:13:28 PM PST by supercat (To call the Constitution a 'living document' is to call a moth-infested overcoat a 'living garment'.)
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To: TERMINATTOR

To me, this document constitutes the Ashcroft DOJ's most enduring legacy, a gift to the people, a labor of love for the Republic. As long winded as it is, it utterly reaffirms the intent of the Founding Fathers. An item of related interest, Gary Hart (yep, that one, Mr. Monkey Business) apparently also takes the same point of view in his PhD thesis, which has what actually looks like a very good plan for beefing up Homeland Security. In it, the reaffirmation of the duties and responsibilities of all able bodied citizen militia members plays a key role in the plan.


42 posted on 12/17/2004 6:16:19 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: TERMINATTOR

Amendments 1-9 were to secure individual rights. The communist founded ACLU is just hiding behind their legal finger to deny that that one particular right is not an individual right.


43 posted on 12/17/2004 6:20:53 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: TERMINATTOR

A great refutation of the "Unitary" interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. This school of thought states that the American people can collectively bear arms, but not individuals.


44 posted on 12/17/2004 6:21:48 PM PST by Remember_Salamis (Freedom is Not Free)
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To: superskunk

bump for later study


45 posted on 12/17/2004 6:21:55 PM PST by knarf (A place where anyone can learn anything ... especially that which promotes clear thinking.)
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To: supercat
"tokens of virginity"

I must admit that I'm not familiar with "tokens of virginity". I'm really not as learned in the word of God as I should be. I may have incorrectly read the context.

Pertaining to Clinton: If he had simply said, "I lied to spare myself and my family embarrassment."; I could have respected that. We all sin. Owning up to it can be difficult, but it's necessary.
46 posted on 12/17/2004 6:22:06 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: knarf
I've got a cousin with a Jurist Doctorate. I'll ask her. (unless I have to make an appointment)
47 posted on 12/17/2004 6:26:21 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: superskunk

As I learned in a land description class: "concise clarity, without ambiguity". Keep it short, simple and to the point, although, I, too, ramble on at times. Yup.


48 posted on 12/17/2004 6:27:18 PM PST by wizr (Freedom ain't free.)
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To: TERMINATTOR

All any idiot (including myself) has to do is learn just a tiny bit of American History and they can easily see that any argument against personal ownership of firearms is about the most retarded thing you could ever hear. And that is a fact jack.


49 posted on 12/17/2004 6:30:22 PM PST by vpintheak (Liberal = The antithesis of Freedom and Patriotism)
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To: wizr

What is a land description class? I'm not familiar with that. As far as 'running on' - this is the perfect forum in which to build a rhetorical rat's nest. Just pile it all together.


50 posted on 12/17/2004 6:31:55 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: superskunk
Pertaining to Clinton: If he had simply said, "I lied to spare myself and my family embarrassment."; I could have respected that. We all sin. Owning up to it can be difficult, but it's necessary.

One thing Democrats don't understand (thank goodness!) is that your mistakes can't rule you if you own up to them. Look what happened with George W. Bush's DUI arrest. He said, "yeah, I did that. I was dumb and stupid then, but I'm wiser now." Since history suggests that Bush learned from his mistakes and has not repeated them, there's nothing more anyone can do to attack Bush with them.

51 posted on 12/17/2004 6:34:31 PM PST by supercat (To call the Constitution a 'living document' is to call a moth-infested overcoat a 'living garment'.)
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To: vpintheak
That's true! The ACLU loves setting new legal precedence to build future cases on, but they (and a few idiot judges) ignore over two centuries of legal precedence.

It defies all logic.
52 posted on 12/17/2004 6:35:50 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: supercat

And the truth shall set you free.


53 posted on 12/17/2004 6:37:39 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: TERMINATTOR

I liked this part.

The one thing the government is forbidden to do is infringe the right of the people, who are the source of the militia's members, to keep and bear arms.

Tell that to those lilly livered skallywags of the gun control lobby.


54 posted on 12/17/2004 6:40:48 PM PST by JustAnotherOkie
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To: superskunk

To accurately write a land description, I took a class that taught some of the history and basics of legal land description.

I handled easements, wrote and reviewed documents concerning land rights. It was an 'interesting' job. I dealt, often, with attorneys that couldn't find their butts. So much for a degree.

However, as the 'Night Court' judge's dad said, after he got out of the asylum, "I'm feeling much better, now!".


55 posted on 12/17/2004 6:44:13 PM PST by wizr (Freedom ain't free.)
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To: JustAnotherOkie
hypothetical:
We're invaded and conquered. Martial law is imposed. The worst atrocities occur regularly against the citizens.

What's the ACLU going to do then? Sue them? Petition them?? They would cower like scared children because they would come to the realization that their fight came a bit to weak and late. They would now know that to speak out could mean a nasty little amputation without the aid of anesthetics.

They're never going to get it unless they somehow come face to face with it.
56 posted on 12/17/2004 6:49:20 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: wizr
Good to hear! :) I thought you were either a magistrate or in real-estate. (things I know little about)
57 posted on 12/17/2004 6:51:37 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: All

Gone fishing. Back in 5.


58 posted on 12/17/2004 6:53:36 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: superskunk

Martial Law, smarshall law, Never means never.


59 posted on 12/17/2004 7:02:46 PM PST by JustAnotherOkie
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To: superskunk

My job, in the end, was to protect my company's easments, while helping outside entities (city, county) and individuals (including developers) to safely use their land.

I enjoyed helping others, cutting the red tape. I am not a bureaucrat. Others did not my attitude (Dirty Harry?). That's why my doctor don't let me play that game no more.

Oh yeah. To me, a realtor is just a couple of rungs lower than a used car salesman. The prices are way too high, especially here in CA.

Truth.


60 posted on 12/17/2004 7:07:14 PM PST by wizr (Freedom ain't free.)
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