Palestinian Genes Show Arab, Jewish, European and Black-African Ancestry

Global Politician ^ | December 16, 2004 | David Storobin, Esq.

[Mercat]

I have some pretty good family records and family history. I don't need proof beyond that. I also has my great grandmother's hair... dark, straight, course.

[SunkenCiv]

"KW" is keyword. :')

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[GSlob]

"Who was it said "The hatred of brothers is stronger than the hatred of strangers"?
Tacitus has expressed something very similar to this quotation, IIRC.
As for geneticists and genealogists, they forgot (or more probably did not know where to look) to check for the IQ gene(s). It might be a relatively recent and obscure mutation in Ashkenazim population.

[Alas Babylon!]

Such as the English being very close to Frisian and Danish which seems to indicate that the Celtic Britons were pushed off the land or killed during the Anglo-Saxon invasions.

The latest evidence says not. It appears that the Celtic blood of Southern Britain still runs strong... Y Chromosomes Rewrite British History

[Alas Babylon!]

And here:

Y Chromosomes Sketch New Outline of British History

[hlmencken3]

Why would you think 'Jewish biologists' denounced the study?

This is a continuing story and widely publicized, and a wildly popular subject in the Jewish world. see the work of orthodox Rabbi Yaakov Kleiman, for example.

A good collection of resources is found at:

http://tarkus.pha.jhu.edu/~ethan/jFAQ.html

see also

http://www.aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Abrahams_Chromosomes$.asp

http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Jewish_Genes.asp

These [widely scattered] Jewish communities are more closely related to each other and to other Middle Eastern Semitic populations -- Palestinians, Syrians, and Druze -- than to their neighboring non-Jewish populations in the Diaspora.

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

At the present time, it is known that Eastern European Jews have a significant Eastern Mediterranean element which manifests itself in a close relationship with Kurdish, Armenian, Palestinian Arab, Lebanese, Syrian, and Anatolian Turkish peoples.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=96990
http://www.judaism.com/display.asp?type=newbook&etn=BCBEG
http://www.jewishsf.com/bk010309/sbaychrom.shtml

[SunkenCiv]

missed you on the GGG ping.

[demecleze]

I meant for the most part. Yes, there is still Celtic blood in the UK and in some places in southern England but the distance analysis I saw for the UK was 7 units away from those of Denmark (this is very close). And this was for the capitols of each country. And I would assume London would be included in 'southern England.'

I wonder what they mean by southern England (Wessex?)? Plus I wonder about the assumptions made with respect to normalizing the Y differences to the central Ireland population. As Ireland was subject to quite heavy Viking activity with lots of slave trading going on there.

I guess I would like to see some corroboration since much other evidence seems to refute their claims.

That is some cool stuff though, even with the caveats, and helps to further understand what the heck happened in England during that time.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Try "travelled" or "visited" instead.

[Doctor Stochastic]

"Good beer and good green cheese" is good English and good Fries.

[demecleze]

Please forgive me it was from the hip. I do in fact know that France (Derived from the name of the Germanic tribe that came in with Clovis)is a country and French is Nationality and moniker for the Latin derived language.

Race is a little more tricky, I am doing my pH.D in Biophysics so I have encountered lots of this stuff over the years. I guess I should have described those groups as tribes, breeds or subspecies? In Biology the term tribe is used sometimes with respect to plants but it is not an accepted grouping (right now lowest is subspecies).

I have never agreed with the Caucasian, Mongoloid and Negroid race paradigm (oversimplified, need subgroups). But you are essentially correct as that is the only one I am aware of.

I refer to any group that if distilled would likely yield a Gaussian distribution of traits as a race or a subset of some other race. I guess what we need is uniform system to label these groups.

I thank you for the correction and will try not to be so lazy in the future.

[KoRn]

Mutts

[spinestein]

I don't pretend to know the why of it from any personal understanding, but I would guess it has something to do with the "My tribe is better than your tribe" idea that makes up a part of our primate brains.

Something I found interesting from the site you linked to in your post
http://www.jewishsf.com/bk010309/sbaychrom.shtml
that I think has a bearing on this topic.

" "The Middle East is a complex region genetically, but it's also very united," he said. "Geopolitical boundaries, even religion, are very recent in terms of the time scale we're looking at." "

On the time scale of our common ancestry in East Africa about 60,000 years ago all the discussion about what happened to us genetically 500 years ago seems trivial.

[Siamese Princess]

It is thought by most historians (although they avoid mentioning it for PC reasons) that Indo-Europeans ruled the middle east(like at least 4000 years ago) as they did India. But the caste system in India remained (with inevitable mixing) while the Semitic peoples (loose racial grouping that includes Arabs and Jews) appeared to have finally revolted with the advent of Islam.

As far as I am aware the Palestinians were originally an Indo-European tribe.

The Persians and Kurds are an Indo-European people -- their language is related, albeit distantly, to English. I think that the Phoenicians were Indo-European, as well. There were many Greek settlers in the eastern Mediterranean (and even further east) dating from after the conquests of Alexander the Great. Plus, huge numbers of Europeans somehow or another ended up as slaves of the Muslims.

[Dan from Michigan]

It's even worse for being Irish (the officially sanctioned "cool" ethnic derivation); a lot more people claim Irish ancestry than actually are Irish these days.

Who wouldn't want to be of Irish blood? :) John Kerry claimed it for years......even though he's about as Irish as I am English....none(that I know of)

A lot of the Irish (Orange) particularly from Appalachia are actually the "Scots-Irish" who are mostly Presbyterian and descended from Scottish settlers who first moved to Ulster and displaced the Catholics there.

[Dan from Michigan]

As Ireland was subject to quite heavy Viking activity with lots of slave trading going on there.

Unfortunatly, I'm not as up on Irish history as I should be. I do know that the Gaelic in Ireland were staunchly rural while the Vikings controlled the cities more.

I'm not sure how the Picts fit in though.

[Dan from Michigan]

Did they speculate how much of the Celtic blood in England is from Irish immigration there?

I found out I have a distant relative in the Royal Air Force(same very uncommon last name).

[hlmencken3]

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=96990

Study finds close genetic connection between Jews, Kurds

By Tamara Traubman

The people closest to the Jews from a genetic point of view may be the Kurds, according to results of a new study at the Hebrew University.

Scientists who participated in the research said the findings seem to indicate both peoples had common ancestors who lived in the northern half of the fertile crescent, where northern Iraq and Turkey are today. Some of them, it is assumed, wandered south in pre-historic times and settled on the eastern shores of the Mediterranean.

Professor Ariella Oppenheim and Dr. Marina Feirman, who carried out the research at the Hebrew University, said they were surprised to find a closer genetic connection between the Jews and the populations of the fertile crescent than between the Jews and their Arab neighbors. Oppenheim pointed out that previous research of DNA of Jews, including her own work, had revealed great genetic similarity between Jews and Arabs, particularly Palestinians from Israel and the territories.

The present study, however, involved more detailed and thorough examinations than previous research. In addition, this was the first comparison of the DNA of Jews and Kurds.

Genetic similarity between peoples is measured by comparing the frequency of genetic mutations among them. This information makes it possible to reconstruct their paths of migration and to discover their unwritten history. The present study, however, reveals only part of the story, since it is based on mutations of the Y chromosome. Since this chromosome, which determines male gender, is passed only from father to son, it does not contain information about the mothers' contributions to the genetic reservoir under study.

The study's findings are published in the current issue of The American Journal of Human Genetics.

The researchers used the DNA of 1,847 Jewish men of Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Kurdish descent; Muslims and Christians of Kurdish, Turkish and Armenian descent; various Arab populations; and Russians, Poles and residents of Belarus.

[ASA Vet]

Don't sweat it.

I agree with your thoughts on the old 3 races.
Maybe some day we'll use a system based on DNA groupings as a replacement for the mostly visual concept race.

[Siamese Princess]

Study finds close genetic connection between Jews, Kurds

That surprises me. I thought that the Kurds were an Indo-European people genetically unrelated to Semites. Their language is Indo-European. I should do some research on the web about this.