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Medical marijuana: The real stakes
TownHall.com ^ | 12-10-04 | Jeff Jacoby

Posted on 12/17/2004 9:12:14 AM PST by inquest

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To: supercat

Here's a guy that went to Federal Prison for his beliefs. Check out his sites:

http://www.ahemp.org/BEPress.html

http://www.smartvoter.org/2003/10/07/ca/state/vote/smith_b/paper3.html

http://www.smartvoter.org/2003/10/07/ca/state/vote/smith_b/paper1.html


221 posted on 12/18/2004 2:50:05 PM PST by panaxanax
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To: robertpaulsen
Madison is saying that although regulate with foreign nations gives our federal government the power to tax their imports to favor our country, regulate among the several states does not give our federal government the power to tax one state to favor another.

He's saying considerably more than that. The Constitution already explicitly prohibits the federal government from taxing one state to favor another. Madison's saying that the commerce clause, as it applies to interstate commerce, was not designed to be used "for the positive purposes of the general government" - exactly the opposite of what you said at #106.

222 posted on 12/18/2004 3:18:52 PM PST by inquest (Now is the time to remove the leftist influence from the GOP. "Unity" can wait.)
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To: robertpaulsen

Sorry, your diatribe is not worthy of a response.


223 posted on 12/18/2004 4:04:58 PM PST by Indie (Ignorance of the truth is no excuse for stupidity.)
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To: PaxMacian

I think I agree, but I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. If you mean to say that it's nobody's business what you ingest if you're not endangering others I agree.


224 posted on 12/18/2004 4:24:06 PM PST by Spyder
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To: robertpaulsen
i should have asked before. What kind of studies are you talking about? Are you talking about studies using smoked marijuana to relieve some condition?

What can't you conduct studies the same way you would for any other substance? Obviously a double-blind study would be difficult as the smell is so distinctive - it would be tough to find an inert placebo substance, though you might be able to find a group that honestly didn't know what the real stuff smelled like so they could be more easily fooled with a substitute. Still, there are ways of conducting a study just as with any pain-relieving drug: Visual analog scales, functional scales, and the like. Weight gain is also an objective finding - take any group of people on a specific chemo drug and have half of them smoke and see what the weight gain or loss is.

What sort of scientific background do you have, BTW?

225 posted on 12/18/2004 4:28:24 PM PST by Spyder
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To: robertpaulsen
Oh ... oh, the heartlessness. The inhumanity

huh? Been smokin' some yourself?

Are you also one of those who doesn't believe legitimate drugs should be used to alleviate discomfort in any form? That antidepressants are a crutch? That narcotics only relieve pain and therefore dull the reality of the human condition?

Better living through chemistry (and agriculture if need be). No, I don't want my kids smoking it to get high - but if it relieves someone's discomfort, even ANECDOTALLY, while undergoing chemo, why deny them? I'm not a fan of quack remedies, but I don't see the need to ban them. And hey, if magnets really make you feel better, go for it. A lot of medication is prescribed for subjective reasons and discarded/discontinued for subjective reasons.

226 posted on 12/18/2004 4:34:38 PM PST by Spyder
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To: robertpaulsen

Actually, I don't want it legal either. I was just throwing out some things absoluting neccessary if it does become legal.

Thank you for your comments.

John


227 posted on 12/18/2004 4:42:29 PM PST by jrfaug06
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To: robertpaulsen
The 18th amendment was ratified in 1919. Wickard was decided in 1942. I doubt if the notion of using 1-8-3 was even conceivable in years prior to 1919 when the liquor Nazis plotted their disastrous experiment.

228 posted on 12/18/2004 4:48:43 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: MarkL
Even if pot has medical value it would be not worth the cost to society to allow its use. It would be better off for people like her to take narcotics. There would be a cost to her but why should millions of others pay tons more to let her smoke dope when other drugs are available.



John
229 posted on 12/18/2004 4:48:51 PM PST by jrfaug06
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To: robertpaulsen
So, if the complex cannibinoids in cannabis do the job, why not smoke it, if you like?

230 posted on 12/18/2004 4:52:14 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: robertpaulsen
Purposely overlooking my point?

Not at all; I'm speaking directly to your point.

If you're going to compare the benefits of ending alcohol Prohibition to ending drug prohibition, then you have legalize all drugs.

Nonsense. Marijuana is recognized by many as being relatively benign in its effects on society. Not harmless, certainly, but its deleterious effects hardly justify the expenditure of finite public safety resources spent to curtail its use. From what I've seen, the probation/fine/asset seizure gravy train enjoyed by municipal administrations is the more likely motivation.

Legalizing just marijuana is equivalent to legalizing just wine during Prohibition.

Again, nonsense. Just because you say it doesn't make it so. Anyone with a brain can see that marijuana is utterly different in its effects on individuals, and by extension, society, than, say, crystal meth. Not to mention their completely different chemical composition.

Drinking a half gallon of wine does not produce any substantially different result in the drinker than does drinking a 12-pack of beer, or a fifth of whiskey.

231 posted on 12/18/2004 6:28:30 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: PaxMacian
All pain is radically dissipated by this herb.

ROFLMBO...

232 posted on 12/18/2004 6:56:42 PM PST by LowOiL ("I am neither . I am a Christocrat" -Benjamin Rush)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
Drinking a half gallon of wine does not produce any substantially different result in the drinker than does drinking a 12-pack of beer, or a fifth of whiskey.

Really? A six-pack of beer (72oz) at 4.1% alcohol contains about 3oz alcohol. A half-gallon of wine (64oz) at 7% alcohol would be 4.5oz alcohol. A fifth of whiskey (25.6oz) at 40% alcohol would be 10.24oz alcohol. I would think the physiological effects of the latter would be quite different from the former.

233 posted on 12/18/2004 7:22:22 PM PST by supercat (To call the Constitution a 'living document' is to call a moth-infested overcoat a 'living garment'.)
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To: supercat

Oops... I just notice you said 12-pack (for some reason I'd read 6-pack). That probably puts the results into the same ballpark depending upon the exact varieties of beverages involved. Nevermind...


234 posted on 12/18/2004 7:24:07 PM PST by supercat (To call the Constitution a 'living document' is to call a moth-infested overcoat a 'living garment'.)
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To: supercat

Well, my point was that the active ingredient in all of the beverages specified is the same. I just winged the equivalent amounts off the top of my head. Alcohol is alcohol, drunk is drunk.


235 posted on 12/18/2004 7:31:31 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: robertpaulsen

Ummm... Alaska? What is there to do in Alaska when you're a teenager? I'd rather have them stoned than drunk off a cheap case of PBR. Which group would be more violent and have more of a chance driving wasted?


236 posted on 12/18/2004 7:37:16 PM PST by superfluousdude
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To: inquest
Not the way I read it.

In this letter, Madison is defining the original intent of the commerce clause and comparing it to the way he proposed that it be used in his previous letter where he suggested using the commerce clause against foreign imports for the positive purposes of the country.

The commerce clause was to be used to prevent or correct injustice among the States themselves. Even modern day interpretations of the commerce clause honor this original intent.

237 posted on 12/18/2004 7:39:06 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: Indie
Hah!

You pop up into the thread like a Whack-A-Mole, make some generalized disparaging remarks that have nothing to do with the subject of the thread, then disappear when challenged.

My definition of a troll, troll.

238 posted on 12/18/2004 7:42:34 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
In this letter, Madison is defining the original intent of the commerce clause and comparing it to the way he proposed that it be used in his previous letter where he suggested using the commerce clause against foreign imports for the positive purposes of the country.

Yes, nothing in that paragraph contradicts what I said. But it very starkly contradicts what you said at #106. There, you said that the power over interstate commerce could be used for the positive purposes of the country.

The commerce clause was to be used to prevent or correct injustice among the States themselves.

And I'm sure you understand that in the context of his letter, that means injustice committed by state governments against other states.

239 posted on 12/18/2004 7:47:52 PM PST by inquest (Now is the time to remove the leftist influence from the GOP. "Unity" can wait.)
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To: William Terrell

1-8-3?


240 posted on 12/18/2004 7:52:20 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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