We Are All Pagans Now

The Spectator ^ | December 18, 2004 | Mary Wakefield

[Dead Corpse]

It is like saying that Anton Zander LeVey had a place in Christianity because he used Biblical references in his Black Mass.

[GaryMontana]

Actually the wedding ring comes from the Jewish faith -- an ancient tradition.

[stuartcr]

I think it has something to do with gravitational influences on the liquids and semi-liquids in the brain at the time of birth.

[TChris]

Which is what is being attempted with Druidic beliefs on this very thread.

That may well be, but it not likely be defeated by committing the same fallacy.

[Pyro7480]

It isn't just a matter of obeying the laws of the land. It's a matter of culture. It is pretty obvious that the current popular culture is undermining the foundations this country was founded on, regardless if one thinks the Founding was Deist or Christian.

[Alouette]

modern paganism, one of the fastest-growing religions in Britain.

Not if the Muslims have anything to say about it.

[Pyro7480]

Though I am highly critical of the organization that put this report out, Pagans and Prison describes the motives of why some neo-Nazis are turning to Odinism. It's nothing new in their circles, actually.

[bigLusr]

So do I... sorta. I believe those born without any liquids and semi-liquids in their heads at the time of birth grow up to believe in astrology.

Seriously. The gravitational pull of a car 1 meter away from you is about Ten Times the gravitational pull of Mars.

[vpintheak]

I understand that, but it just seems that there are more and more whack jobs out there.

[Modernman]

What we're witnessing on this thread is just another form of relativism/indifferentism. "Since we have freedom of religion in this country, as long you don't kill or hurt people in your religion's ceremonies, your religion is valid as mine and I don't care what you do."

From the point of view of how we should treat different religions, you've nailed it on the head. So long as other religions do not harm me or mine, why should I care who (or what) my neighbor worships?

[orionblamblam]

> It is pretty obvious that the current popular culture is undermining the foundations this country was founded on

And what does that have to do with pagans or religious belief? Worshipping one god, ten gods or no gods makes no difference in whether one thinks that rape is fine, gangsta rap is cool or that the lowest common denominator is the preferred target.

[iconoclast]

You may want to look at this page and it'links:

Hmm ... my parental control considers it "evil" too!

[Tailgunner Joe]

Actually the racism of Nazism comes directly from the pagan belief in successive cycles of creation. Non-Aryan "root-races" were considered to be earlier creations of the gods not related to Aryans. "Ariosophists" picked up the teachings and the swastika from pagan Theosophy. Everyone should read "The Occult Roots of Nazism: Secret Aryan Cults and Their Influence on Nazi Ideology : The Ariosophists of Austria and Germany, 1890-1935"

[Dead Corpse]

We are not Nazi's. Nor do we suffer those imbiciles amongst us. No more so than most Christians would suffer the "Fred Phelps" of thier religion.

Also, I thought the big story was the rise of Muslim conversions in US prisions?

[Buggman]

Just a few observations here. Re: Hitler, he was an occultist, and the Nazi party was born out of the Thule Society, which was an occultic group. He was obsessed with Eastern mysticism as well as with Christian icons. In his autobiography, Albert Speirs, Hitler's architect, notes that Hitler told his men to remain in good standing in the Church as a political necessity. Nothing in his philosophy, however, can be legitimately tied to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

That's not to say that the Church, either the RCC and the Protestant (Lutheran), were guiltless. Hitler was enabled by 1800 years of anti-semitism combined with the political expediency of those in the pulpits. Furthermore, Hitler remained a Catholic in good standing, and to this day has never been formally excommunicated for whatever reason. The debates on why aren't particularly germaine to this conversation, so let's not get off track here.

To me, Hitler remains an example of what happens when occultism merges with Christianity in the presence of lukewarm pulpits and achieves high power. It's not a pretty picture, and I think we'll be seeing it again soon.

Now, DC, you don't like being grouped together with Hitler, and I respect that. However, it's a bit more difficult to separate modern paganism from their human-sacrificing spiritual ancestors, since today's pagans tie themselves to the Druids, et. al., in order to say that their faith is older than Christianity.

The closest parallel you can find in Christianity are the witch hunts of centuries later. However, no Christian today claims the Inquisition as their spritual forebears--we claim Jesus Christ. If you want to try to take us to task re: His teachings or actions or those of His immediate (first generation) followers, that's fair game. Likewise, if you want to claim spiritual descendence from some other documentable source, it's also fair to ask us to look at that source instead of the bloody practices of the Druids.

Candidly, I'd argue that we should look at fruits as much or more than sources. Christianity, when men stopped adding their own traditions and got back to the source, produced the most free, most prosperous nation in the history of Mankind, and the further we get from that Christian root, the more we're going to lose those blessings. Please tell us what pagan cultures you consider to be examples of the good fruits of your belief system so that we can consider it and judge for ourselves.

[iconoclast]

Sounds like sacrifice to me

Nope, just capital punishment.

[Dead Corpse]

So long as other religions do not harm me or mine, why should I care who (or what) my neighbor worships?

Amen to that. ;-)

[Dead Corpse]

The Christians don't celebrate sacrifice? So what's with that whole Easter thing then?

[orionblamblam]

In this case, the difference is no difference.

[iconoclast]

I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so [Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]

You appear to have an inordinate interest in Herr Hitler or an abundance of disgust for for Christians .... or both?