Posted on 12/16/2004 6:17:56 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
jones:
2nd Amendment rights to carry arms in vehicles are not inferior to parking lot property rights.
jones:
Laws repugnant to Constitutional principles are null & void. - And all of us are obligated to support & defend those principles.
Constitutional principles are subjective interpretations of the actual verbiage of the Constitution.
For example...the whole separation of Church and State is a Constitutional principle, so is the principle of the three branches of government.
You will find neither actual verbiage anywhere in the Constitution, but they are recognized principles nevertheless.
Your entire argument that to bear arms extends to a degree that it negates my property rights, is not an argument grounded on Constitutional principles, as both property rights and the right to bear arms are clearly defined in the Constitution.
What the Constitution does NOT say, is that your right to bear arms negates my right to control access to my property.
Your argument can ONLY be based on the belief that you are A) entitled to a job under your own conditions, and B) entitled to set standards of use on another individual's property.
Your Second Amendment rights remain intact if you are not allowed to enter my property with a weapon, because you have NO RIGHT to enter my property unless I specifically detail the conditions of your entry and continued stay, and you have the right to decide not to enter my property and give up your Second Amendment rights.
On the other hand, your argument violates a property owner's right to set standards of access and use to what belongs to him alone.
These principles have no formal legal status but are fairly widely accepted.
You are now trying to stand on the legality of something that's subject to interpretation according to your political leanings, and has no true legal standing.
Strangely, the guy in question wasn't even on Pizza Hut property at the time of the incident. At least that's the way I read the story.
Whatever.
Attempting to discuss our Constitution with you is futile exercise in circular logic, as has been noted by others on these threads.
For instance, if you report them for violating labor laws, they would not legally be able to retaliate by firing you.
Sorry, but he has the right to set conditions for your employment. You are free to turn down the job. You are no better than liberals who tell a man what he can't do with his own property. And property is a fundamental right.
And how is that different from posting a policy regarding not allowing firearms on company property, and firing you if you violate that rule? Speech is protected by the 1st Amendment. The right to bear arms is protected by the second. But neither gives you the right to exercise them on someone else's private property against the property owner's will.
And, all you can do is ask me to leave. It's at THAT point, if I refuse, that I will then be subject to arrest for tresspassing......nothing more. Of course, that's if your property in question is a business, etc.
And if you are an employee and you violate company policy, they also don't have the right to ask you to leave? As in firing you?
Of course they do. They can fire you for just about anything.
Sorry, but no one in the USA has the 'right' to infringe on my RKBA's, -- locked in my private vehicle at work, -- as a condition of employment.
You are free to take you business elsewhere if you disagree with our system of individual rights.
Mexico is popular I've heard.
I can only save the FR one thread at a time.
I don't jump in on the 2nd amendment much. I basically follow the NRA and wonder what everyone is fussing about. We need more publicity on these situations where folks protect themselves and would probably have died if they didn't have a firearm.
See that wasn't so bad!
You have no right to enter my property uninvited at all.
If you park your car on my property, without getting my OK to do so, or if public parking is permitted as long as it doesn't violate whatever rules of access and use I've set in place for the property, I don't have to ask you to move it and wait to see what you'll do, I can have it towed without even letting you know that I'm doing it.
That remains true whether the property in question is my residence, the grounds around my residence, an empty lot I own, a business that I own and operate, or a business that I run for others.
Funny position for you to take, considering that you will not cede the point that you can take your labor elsewhere if you don't like the work rules set in place by the employer, his property rights precede gun rights, and are the base for all other rights.
These people represent the entitlement mentality that's bringing this country down.
The unspoken argument here is the idea that they are ENTITLED to the job, that they are ENTITLED to use the company parking lot, and that they are ENTITLED to violate both work place rules and the employer's property rights to keep the job they feel BELONGS to them.
They feel justified in lying to their employer about the breakage of company rules, and they claim that their right to self defense is inviolate, but they are arguing in favor of violating the employer's right to self defense because they don't like his idea of what constitutes self defense.
You hit the nail on the head...they are liberals who think that they are conservatives because they like guns.
PLEASE!!!
You haven't a clue about our Constitution.
The Oklahoma legislature violated the right to self defense.
It removed from property owners the ability to set whatever policy they believe serves in their own best interest to safeguard their well-being, and the well-being of their employees.
It doesn't matter that you don't agree with the property owner's idea that no guns on the property makes for a more safe work environment than guns on the property does, what matters is that the legislature has removed the property owner's ability to set in place a self-defense policy on their own property.
They have violated both property rights, and the right to self defense.
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