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Rights, rights, and rights (Guns at the workplace)
Freedom Sight ^ | December 11, 2004 | Jed S. Baer

Posted on 12/16/2004 6:17:56 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez

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To: jonestown
2nd Amendment rights to carry arms in vehicles are not inferior to parking lot property rights.

They are not superior, either. Otherwise, you are basically demanding a taking of property rights.

41 posted on 12/16/2004 10:22:46 AM PST by dirtboy (Tagline temporarily out of commission due to excessive intake of gin-soaked raisins)
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To: jonestown
They do this to create the roads. Instead, the zoning folks simply say the lot must be a certain size to accomodate the number of folks expected. If you think you can setup a significant business, w/o providing parking and using other people's property for that purpose, you are mistaken. You are not entitled to the space. No business owner is entitled to claim that a parking lot is any more than what it is. It's defined by the State.

By that logic, a parking lot owner could not restrict who parks in his lot to only customers. Try again.

I'm a big supporter of 2nd Amendment rights. But those rights are not superior to property rights. If you don't agree with the terms a property owner puts on his private property, don't go on his property. It's that simple.

42 posted on 12/16/2004 10:47:38 AM PST by dirtboy (Tagline temporarily out of commission due to excessive intake of gin-soaked raisins)
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To: Puppage

I beg to differ. The Constitution didn't give you any rights, it restricts the government's rights and actions and enumerates some (but not all) of the rights God gave you.


43 posted on 12/16/2004 10:53:02 AM PST by mushroom (.)
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To: dirtboy

dirtboy wrote:

I'm a big supporter of 2nd Amendment rights. But those rights are not superior to property rights.
If you don't agree with the terms a property owner puts on his private property, don't go on his property. It's that simple.







2nd Amendment rights to carry arms in vehicles are not inferior to parking lot property rights.

If you don't agree with those Constitutional terms, do business elsewhere.


44 posted on 12/16/2004 11:19:52 AM PST by jonestown ( JONESTOWN, TX http://www.tsha.utexas.edu)
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To: dirtboy
"By that logic, a parking lot owner could not restrict who parks in his lot to only customers. "

The zoning board realizes the business owner is the one that requires the lot be put in. It's for his use. The zoning board doesn't tell business owners to put lots in for other businesses. The lots are put in, because of the demand for temp. storage of vehicles that particular business creates. Neither the zoning board, nor the business are going to allow jeopardizing parking space supply, by insisting on open parking.

Vehicles are the consideration, not what's lawfully in them.

45 posted on 12/16/2004 11:29:18 AM PST by spunkets
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To: jonestown
2nd Amendment rights to carry arms in vehicles are not inferior to parking lot property rights.

They also are not superior. They are equal. Which means that you have the right to carry a weapon - but a private property owner has the right to say that you can't carry a weapon on his property.

If you don't agree with those Constitutional terms, do business elsewhere.

You're the one wanting to force association on private property - hardly a Constitutional position.

46 posted on 12/16/2004 11:37:14 AM PST by dirtboy (Tagline temporarily out of commission due to excessive intake of gin-soaked raisins)
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To: spunkets
Vehicles are the consideration, not what's lawfully in them.

A parking lot owner can also deny the ability to placard vehicles on his lot. He can say that you cannot park on his lot if you have certain materials in your car. The point is, by building a parking lot, the property owner does not forfeit certain rights to say what can happen on his property.

47 posted on 12/16/2004 11:38:47 AM PST by dirtboy (Tagline temporarily out of commission due to excessive intake of gin-soaked raisins)
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To: vie20000
Not saying whether I agree or disagree on principal, but Indiana is an employment-at-will state. Your employer can fire you if they don't like the color shirt you are wearing, and you basically have no recourse. The only exception would be if you could prove discrimination based on a protected class (e.g. sex or race).

There is one more reason that prevents an employer from firing someone, even in an 'at-will' state. An employer cannot legally fire someone in retaliation for exercising a legal right.

48 posted on 12/16/2004 11:39:32 AM PST by jimthewiz (An armed society is a polite society)
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To: dirtboy

jones:
2nd Amendment rights to carry arms in vehicles are not inferior to parking lot property rights.





They also are not superior. They are equal.

Which means that you have the right to carry a weapon - but a private property owner has the right to say that you can't carry a weapon on his property.

46 dirtboy






We agree, equal.
Thus, a private property owner does not have the right to prevent employees from locking a rightfully carried weapon in their vehicle. -- While parking for work.


49 posted on 12/16/2004 12:31:08 PM PST by jonestown ( JONESTOWN, TX http://www.tsha.utexas.edu)
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To: jonestown
Thus, a private property owner does not have the right to prevent employees from locking a rightfully carried weapon in their vehicle. -- While parking for work.

Yes, he does. You have the right to not work there if you so choose.

The infringement of property rights that you are demanding upon the property owner regarding carrying a gun is little different than what the Endangered Species Act does or what restrictive zoning does - it curtails the right of a property owner to his own full rights. No one forces you to go onto his property. If you find his conditions regarding weapons on company property onerous, find somewhere else to work. There have been times when I turned down jobs because I didn't like some of the workplace rules. You can do the same.

By your measure, I should also be free to say whatever I want at work without recrimination.

50 posted on 12/16/2004 1:42:56 PM PST by dirtboy (Tagline temporarily out of commission due to excessive intake of gin-soaked raisins)
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To: jimthewiz
An employer cannot legally fire someone in retaliation for exercising a legal right.

Really? I have a legal constitutional right to speak my mind. That doesn't mean an employer cannot fire me if I say something that violates company policy.

51 posted on 12/16/2004 1:44:02 PM PST by dirtboy (Tagline temporarily out of commission due to excessive intake of gin-soaked raisins)
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To: jonestown
"I'm not arguing in support of the Oklahoma State legislature's right to set policy for property owners."

Now you've crossed over to outright hypocrisy.

52 posted on 12/16/2004 2:03:08 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: libstripper
"The point about concealed carry is that one's employer does not learn about the weapon's presence unless a situation develops where the employee has to display it or discharge it in self defense."

You're assuming that it will be discharged in self-defense. It may also be the cause for the need to act in self defense.

"Hence, the way to deal with an employer who prohibits legal concealed carry is to carry in spite of the rule and don't let anybody know about it unless you have actually to use the weapon in self defense."

I keep reading that people who commit gun violence have no regard for the law or rules, it appears that you don't either.

53 posted on 12/16/2004 2:12:28 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: loboinok
"As well it should, but here in OK,many of us contend that the business owner has a right to policy BUT the vehicle sitting on their parking lot is OUR private property."

That makes absolutely no sense.

The only reason to HAVE a parking lot, is for people to PARK their vehicles.

What else would one expect to find in a parking lot in Oklahoma if not parked vehicles?

When the property owner set his rules of access to his PARKING LOT, he set the conditions by which your vehicle, AND ITS CONTENTS, are allowed to remain on his property.

The workplace rule didn't say "No Guns In The Parking Lot, Unless They're In Your Car."

54 posted on 12/16/2004 2:16:25 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: jonestown
"Laws repugnant to Constitutional principles are null & void."

So, it's Constitutional "principles" now?

So, you're standing in support of the Constitutional Principle of separation of Church and State?

55 posted on 12/16/2004 2:24:15 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: jonestown
"Which means that you have the right to carry a weapon - but a private property owner has the right to say that you can't carry a weapon on his property."

Try reading slowly jonesy, see if it sinks in.

56 posted on 12/16/2004 2:27:03 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: jonestown

You don't have a right to park on my lot, even if you're employed by me.

Your parking PRIVILEGE is GRANTED by ME to YOU pending your adherence to my rules.

Rule #1...I don't want weapons anywhere on my property, and that includes in your car while it is parked ON my property.

You don't like my rule?

Fine, I will not grant you the privilege to park on my property.


57 posted on 12/16/2004 2:30:19 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: bigsigh

What?

No pearls of wisdom from you?


58 posted on 12/16/2004 2:32:35 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Puppage
BTW, have you ever called in sick when you really weren't?

LOL. Anthing posted by Luis should be posted under humor.

59 posted on 12/16/2004 2:36:57 PM PST by ServesURight
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To: ServesURight

Alphabetically speaking, my posts then would rank above yours.

"Humor" does precede "irrelevant" in alphabetical order, doesn't it?


60 posted on 12/16/2004 3:07:03 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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