ACLU Files Suit in Pa. Over Evolution

FOX News ^

[Rudder]

Well, I visited Big Daddy and read the cartoon strip.

[Right in Wisconsin]

LOL - you certainly know HIM alright! I am a HER and don't need to defend my belief in Creationism to you or anyone else. And, Dimensio is mad at me for telling people not to waste time with HIM. I guess payback time for me!

[ApesForEvolution]

I can't wait until the ACLU crashes and burns...

[Right in Wisconsin]

Yes, 6 types. That's not an answer. If you are so well educated in evolution, you would have a ready answer.

[WildTurkey]

It was a long post so I may have missed your point. Where in it does it indicate early Christians believed the earth to be a sphere?

[Right Wing Professor]

Well, I visited Big Daddy and read the cartoon strip.

Have you repented yet?

(BTW, not many people know this, but I was a model for the prof. in the strip, except I'm fatter and uglier.)

[Right in Wisconsin]

Neither, my "guess", as I'm not an expert, would be that they would be found in the same fossil records.

[ApesForEvolution]

Here's one:

>>>
How your taxpayer dollars support the secularist agenda of the ACLU





Steven Voigt

Steven Voigt
July 17, 2004


The American Civil Liberties Union's (ACLU's) recent demand that Los Angeles County remove a tiny cross from the county seal demonstrates just how far this and other far left groups will go to remove faith from our nation. These days, no public entity that permits anything related to faith should feel safe from the ACLU — not our schools where students say the pledge of allegiance, not counties that have crosses on their seals, and certainly not public institutions that permit voluntary prayer. Do not rest easy tonight, because the moral foundation of our nation is endangered by left-wing lawyers who bully cash strapped school districts and counties into doing whatever they want or else risk paying the lawyers' fees, which could be hundreds of thousands of dollars for a single case.

Even though it obtains substantial fees from First Amendment lawsuits, the ACLU disclaims any pecuniary motive for these suits. For example, speaking about a 1999 case against a high school in Ohio that allegedly violated the establishment clause of the First Amendment, an ACLU spokesperson remarked, "we don't bring cases to make money or cash in on other people's insurance policies."[1] Notably, this comment came after the ACLU pocketed $18,000 from the case, a sum the ACLU considered "somewhat less than we feel we earned."[2]

To the ACLU, $18,000 is pennies. In February of this year, the City of San Diego forked over $950,000 in legal fees to the ACLU for a First Amendment lawsuit filed by the ACLU against the City and the Boy Scouts on behalf of an atheist and a lesbian couple.[3] In 1999, after the ACLU and the People for American Way sued a county library for using software to filter out Internet porn, a federal judge awarded the groups $106,918.25 in legal fees.[4] The groups had asked for over $488,000 in attorneys' fees. The ACLU, the Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and the Southern Poverty Law Center will collect $549,000 in fees from hard-working Alabama taxpayers after succeeding to force Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore to remove a monument displaying the Ten Commandments.[5] There are many more examples of large fee petitions and awards from similar cases.

The chaos stems from the ACLU's view of the establishment clause — which happens to be incorrect — that the group hoists upon individual communities and public schools. For certain, the ACLU has a strong pecuniary incentive to continue pressuring schools and counties to align with its secularist reading of our Constitution and laws. To secure big awards of fees, the group continues to employ a tortured understanding of the intent behind a federal fee-shifting statute, 42 U.S.C. §1988.

In fact, when Congress contemplated the fee-shifting bill three decades ago, it never conceived that 42 U.S.C. §1988 would be used to secure fees in esoteric battles over the meaning of the establishment clause of the First Amendment. The statute gives a court "discretion" to award attorneys' fees to the prevailing party in civil rights cases. Study of the legislative history of the statute reveals that Congress intended this statute to apply to civil rights abuses, including certain race and sex discrimination cases, but not to arguments about whether Judge Roy Moore is allowed to display the Ten Commandments in the Alabama courthouse. During the deliberations on the bill, the Senate penned that "in many cases arising under our civil rights laws, the citizen who must sue to enforce the law has little or no money with which to hire a lawyer."[6] In the recent First Amendment lawsuits filed by the ACLU, the tables are turned. Small school districts and municipalities can either defend lawsuits and risk paying the ACLU's attorneys' fees if they lose, or they can voluntarily submit to the ACLU's view of the Constitution.

Even if lawsuits over the establishment clause somehow fall within 42 U.S.C. §1988, the statute empowers courts with nothing more than "discretion" to award fees. In these cases, one would expect courts to withhold awarding fees. Since this is not happening, Congress must take immediate action to clarify 42 U.S.C. §1988 to explicitly exclude lawsuits related to the acknowledgement of God.

If anybody should be paying attorneys' fees, it is the ACLU for filing lawsuits designed to force schools and communities to adopt its secularist interpretation of the Constitution and our laws.

NOTES:


ACLU of Ohio Declares Victory in School Prayer Case, ACLU web-site (Oct. 19, 1999) (available at http://www.acluohio.org/press_releases/.../1999.10.19.htm (last viewed July 16, 2004)).


Id.


Boy Scouts Amend Lawsuit Against City of San Diego; Add New Violations of Civil Rights on Fiesta Island Lease, Boy Scouts of America National Council Legal Issues Web Site (February 24, 2004) (available at http://www.bsalegal.org/amendeds-150.htm (last viewed July 16, 2004).


Judge Awards ACLU and PFAW $106,918.25 in the Loudoun Library Case, Tech Law Journal (April 13, 1999) (available at http://www.techlawjournal.com/censor/19990413a.htm (last viewed July 16, 2004)).


Settlement in Ten Commandments statue suits costs taxpayers $500,000, CourtTV.com (April 15, 2004) (available at http://courttv.com/news/2004/0415/monument_ap.html (last viewed July 17, 2004)).


See Senate Report 94-1011 (June 29, 1976).

---

Steven T. Voigt is a lawyer with a premier international law firm, with a practice based in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. After receiving his juris doctorate, Steven served as a judicial clerk to the Pennsylvania appellate court for one year before entering private practice. He is the author of numerous papers and publications on national public policy and law, most recently the books, No Political Solution No Political Messiah and TYRANNY: The Collapse of Traditional Law in America, as well as the law review The United States Must Remain Steadfastly Opposed to The Rome Treaty International Criminal Court (published by Widener Law Review 2003).

Among other community involvement, Steven is a Member of the Board of Advisors for Americandestiny.com. He also authors a free monthly e-newsletter discussing issues of national public policy, entitled Voigt on America. To subscribe to this free newsletter, simply send your name and e-mail address to VoigtOnAmerica@aol.com.

The views expressed in this commentary are solely those of Steven T. Voigt and do not necessarily reflect the views of his employer, any organizations he is affiliated with, or any forum where this is published. Furthermore, the views are not intended to be construed as legal advice. If you need advice about anything in this article, please speak directly with an attorney.

© Copyright 2004 by Steven Voigt
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/voigt/040717
...

[Right in Wisconsin]

LOL - where's the proof? That's such an old saying and claim.

[stremba]

Please stop misrepresenting the theory of evolution. It doesn't help the debate when one side argues against a theory that they either misunderstand or deliberately misstate.

[odoso]

I don't think we can afford to wait, The ACLU seems to get bolder and bolder with each attack. They need to be taken down... hard!

[Right Wing Professor]

Where in it does it indicate early Christians believed the earth to be a sphere?

It appears that some did, some didn't.

[Right in Wisconsin]

"She's" never been to that website in her life. Goofy website.

[ApesForEvolution]

I agree! It's the core of the enemy within.

Here's another one:

LAW OF THE LAND
Petition: Get ACLU
off taxpayer dole
Legal group awarded 1/2 million tax dollars for ridding courthouse of 10 Commandments

---

Posted: November 25, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Ron Strom
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

A new online petition asks Congress to change a specific civil-rights statute in hopes of preventing the American Civil Liberties Union from collecting attorney fees from taxpayers of local governments the organization takes to court.

The effort – spearheaded by Craig McCarthy of CourtZero.org, a site dedicated to stemming judicial activism – seeks to change 42 U.S.C., Section 1988, of the United States Code. The statute now allows judges to award attorney fees to plaintiffs in civil-rights cases brought against local governments, thereby putting the taxpayers on the hook and oftentimes funneling public money to the ACLU. McCarthy wants the law changed so cases involving the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment would not apply.


When the ACLU takes a city to court claiming a Christmas display violates the Establishment Clause, for example, if the municipality loses, the city's taxpayers would not have to pay ACLU attorneys. Ending the financial incentive, McCarthy says, would cause the ACLU to decrease their anti-religion litigation.

"Asking the ACLU directly to cease their destructive behavior is unlikely to have much impact," McCarthy told WND, "but cutting off public funding of their activities would be both doable and effective."

McCarthy gave some examples of the effect of the current law, citing the case of Los Angeles County, which was threatened by the ACLU over its seal, which contained a small cross. Many law firms offered to defend the county against the ACLU for free in that instance, but the county didn't accept the offer. McCarthy says it's because the real expense for the county would be in paying the ACLU's attorney fees if it were to ultimately lose the case.

"Even if they get free attorneys, if they lose, the county's on the hook," he explained.

McCarthy also mentioned the Ten Commandments case in Alabama involving Judge Roy Moore, saying taxpayers there were ordered to pay the ACLU "at least half a million dollars."

Though he says he understands the reasons for the fees, he thinks the Establishment Clause cases have gotten out of hand.

"I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater," McCarthy said, "but I think it would resonate with most people. The Establishment Clause cases have gotten silly. We've been doing this for 30 years about everything … it's like the ACLU is going from town to town" looking for things to sue over.

"If you want to litigate Establishment Clause cases, have at it," he said, "but it shouldn't be taxpayer-supported anymore."

The online petition states, in part: "The ACLU has declared war on the Boy Scouts of America, the military of the United States, Christmas displays, public buildings that display the Ten Commandments, and many other American traditions. …

"The vast majority of taxpayers do not want to be forced to pay the ACLU to sue their neighbors and friends in the ACLU's efforts to strip America of all signs of faith. …

"We, The People, call upon our elected representatives to amend U.S.C., Section 1988, so that fees are not awarded to the ACLU or any other plaintiff in Establishment Clause cases. We wish for the Free Expression Clause to implicate at least the same financial incentives as attacks upon faith currently have."

The Establishment Clause of the Constitution says, " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. …"

Stop ACLU before going to court

Attorney Mathew Staver says he understands McCarthy's point but believes there's a better way to go about it. Staver is president and general counsel of Liberty Counsel, a nonprofit religious-liberties law firm.

"What Congress ought to do is pass a statute that cuts back the standing of the ability to bring Establishment Clause claims," Staver said, which would limit who could file such a suit.

He says currently anyone who is "offended" by what they see, a Ten Commandments display, for example, can bring suit.

"You can't do that in any other area of litigation," Staver said. "You've got to have a personal, direct injury. …

"They need to get to the root of it, and the root of it is not whether the ACLU can get attorneys' fees," he told WND. "The root of it is who can bring these lawsuits."

Staver noted that the Supreme Court ruled against atheist Michael Newdow in the Pledge of Allegiance case because he didn't have "standing" or authority to actually bring the suit.

He said he's opposed to eliminating the provision for attorney fees for Establishment Clause cases.

Instead, he said, "you ought to stop them before they can get to the courtroom."

The attorney said there are some discussions on the federal level about limiting the standing on Establishment Clause cases.

Destroying the cross

The American Legion Department of California earlier this year passed a resolution also calling on Congress to eliminate the financial incentives for the ACLU in Establishment Clause cases.

It asks Congress to "amend 42 U.S.C., Section 1988, to expressly preclude the courts from awarding attorney fees under that statute, in lawsuits brought to remove or destroy religious symbols."

According to a report in the Record Gazette or Banning, Calif., the resolution was sparked by the decision of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upholding the ACLU's claim that the solitary cross at what is now officially the Mojave Desert Veterans Memorial violates the First Amendment and must be taken down.

Robert Castillo is a member of the veterans group and was part of the D-Day Normandy operation of World War II.

"I can't believe that Congress is allowing judges to give the ACLU thousands of dollars to sue to get rid of a cross at a veterans memorial when we are sending kids to war again to defend our freedom against terrorists," Castillo told the paper.

"The ACLU has gone too far. There are 9,000 crosses and Stars of David at Normandy. My buddies are buried there. If the ACLU can destroy the cross at the Mojave Desert Veterans Memorial, then they can destroy the crosses at Normandy, or Riverside Veterans Memorial Cemetery, or Arlington National."

McCarthy says he hopes to get some signatures on the petition and then begin "shopping it around" Capitol Hill for sponsorship.

---

SPECIAL OFFER! With the ACLU intimidating the U.S. Defense Department into ending its sponsorship of Boy Scout troops, threatening to sue an abstinence website because it mentions God and attempting to outlaw Christmas displays in public places, WND is giving away FREE – for a very limited time – its acclaimed report "THE MYTH OF CHURCH-STATE SEPARATION," which annihilates the notion that the Constitution ejects religion from government.

As a matter of fact, until the offer ends, everyone residing in the United States who subscribes to WND's acclaimed Whistleblower magazine, or renews their subscription, or who gives a gift subscription will receive – FREE – "THE MYTH OF CHURCH-STATE SEPARATION" plus six other special Whistleblower issues, plus Joseph Farah's blockbuster book "Taking America Back."

---

Ron Strom is a news editor for WorldNetDaily.com.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41635

[Modernman]

Yes, 6 types. That's not an answer. If you are so well educated in evolution, you would have a ready answer.

You claim there are 6 types of evolution. I have no idea where you would get that idea and no idea what the 6 different types of "evolution" are. So, there is no way to answer your question since it rests on a faulty basis: i.e., that there are 6 types of evolution.

Maybe it would help if you told us what you think the 6 types of evolution are.

[Right in Wisconsin]

To you only, maybe. Creationists are the majority of the conservative party, so I believe it attracts and retains, not scare people away.

[stremba]

I believe that Erastothanes measured the circumference of the earth by looking at the length of a shadow in one town at noon on the same date that he knew that the sun was directly overhead in another. He used basic trigonometric relationships, combined with the knowledge of the distance between the two towns to make the calculation. IIRC, he came within 1% of the modern accepted value.

[Modernman]

Neither, my "guess", as I'm not an expert, would be that they would be found in the same fossil records.

Well, then, if your guess is based on Intelligent Design "Thoery," then the theory is wrong.

Based on physical characteristics of the two insects, the TOE would predict that ants evolved from wasps. What do you think the fossil record says?

[Right in Wisconsin]

1 - Cosmic evolution- the origin of time, space and matter. Big Bang.
2 - Chemical evolution- the origin of higher elements from hydrogen.
3 - Stellar and planetary evolution- Origin of stars and planets.
4 - Organic evolution- Origin of life from inanimate matter.
5 - Macroevolution- Origin of major kinds.
6 - Microevolution Variations within kinds- Only this one has been observed, the first five are religious. They are believed, by faith, even though there is no empirical evidence to prove them in any way. While I admire the great faith of the evolutionists who accept the first five I object to having this religious propaganda included in with legitimate science at taxpayer’s expense.

[Right in Wisconsin]

1 - Cosmic evolution- the origin of time, space and matter. Big Bang.
2 - Chemical evolution- the origin of higher elements from hydrogen.
3 - Stellar and planetary evolution- Origin of stars and planets.
4 - Organic evolution- Origin of life from inanimate matter.
5 - Macroevolution- Origin of major kinds.
6 - Microevolution Variations within kinds- Only this one has been observed, the first five are religious. They are believed, by faith, even though there is no empirical evidence to prove them in any way. While I admire the great faith of the evolutionists who accept the first five I object to having this religious propaganda included in with legitimate science at taxpayer’s expense.