Posted on 12/08/2004 12:03:15 AM PST by LouAvul
I think most Americans are a lot less obsessed with this issue than you or I.
Oh BTW, reletive newbie, I was here for 6 years before you signed up
And that qualifies you for...?
LOL You've proved not a lot. You've even claimed on this thread that making them guest workers didn't legalize them. You don't understand the process the President has proposed for legalized illegal aliens to apply for citizenship, and you clearly don't understand the mechanics of previous amnesties, which were quite similar to what President Bush is proposing.
I'm sure Dubya has looked at the option of closing down the borders and punishing businesses who hire illegals. I think he and a lot of very smart people who were hired to protect America believe that will not work, or the consequences of doing it are worse than doing nothing at all.
Dubya is trying to address the problem. I think Dubya's approach to illegal immigration is amnesty/work permits for illegals who have a solid work history, increasing legal immigration, more resources at the border, deportation/incarceration for those who are left over, and trying solutions that don't hurt trade and tourism should be tried first. I think the guest worker program will record many people who are in the country and will free up resources to go after the rest.
So using your logic my paying a moving violation fine is akin to amnesty.
Under the Presidents plan anybody here illegally has to pay a fine to enter the guest worker program.
Yeah there is, ain't that funny?
The past few weeks we've been told that the Sensenbrenner provision needed to be removed because this was strictly an intelligence bill, and that anything involving immigration should be dealt with separately. I guess that wasn't quite so.
Really? Reagan signed a blanket amnesty, and Bush's proposal is not.
I don't care what the program is, as long as the LAW is upheld. As it stands currently, we have millions of criminals in this country. They are criminals simply because they crossed the border illegaly, which is a crime.
Now nobody can make them un-criminals, unless you grant amnesty, and Bush has stated repeatedly that he isn't proposing amnesty. So what is he proposing?
Guest worker programs would be great, but what do you do with the millions of criminals we have now?
This all comes down to the fact that illegal still means illegal.
Whew, did you knock your computer off the desk with that knee jerk.
Like it or not you cannot build up a wall, it was tried before in modern times in a place called Berlin and it eventually fell.
My opinion is to bring some order to the process and to work for a more prosperous Mexico and Latin America, which will in the end solve the immigration problem.
Irrelevant, that's not what Sensenbrenner was proposing, nor Tancredo, nor I for that matter.
Dubya is trying to address the problem. I think Dubya's approach to illegal immigration is amnesty/work permits for illegals who have a solid work history, increasing legal immigration, more resources at the border, deportation/incarceration for those who are left over, and trying solutions that don't hurt trade and tourism should be tried first.
It rewards illegal aliens for entering illegally and then working illegally. Rewarding illegal aliens has not worked in the past, it has only led to more illegal aliens.
Why try a proven failure first? What's your opposition to a guest worker plan that requires applications from the country of origin?
This all comes down to the fact that illegal still means illegal
Well, you have to start somewhere and they would have to a pay a fine to enter the guest worker program so there is some recompense for their illegally crossing the border.
No he didn't, the Reagan amnesty had proof of residency requirements, criminal background checks, health checks, and other factors that were considered. Not all illegal aliens were accepted. LOL Like I said you don't understand the mechanics of previous amnesties.
I have addressed your equating immigration and terrorism several time in this thread. They are not the same thing. This bill addresses a lot more than just drivers licenses. The fringe right's anal retentive fixation on IMMIGRATION has them fighting against a good bill against TERRORISM. See? 2 different words.
So can you show me Reagan's guest worker program.
So you oppose the wall in Israel? Seems to be working just fine. Oh, and these walls are to keep people out, not in.
And please, the attempt at equating border security with totalitarianism is a bit transparent. Every nation maintains their borders. What we are calling for is nothing unusual, except that certain elements of the hate-America crowd, such as Pelosi, really dig the fact that our security is undermined by weak borders.
Looks like you didn't read my posts.
And would this fine in any way approach the burden on our medical and entitlement systems that they have already cost legitimate citizens and taxpayers? I think not.
Reagan's amnesty wasn't a guest worker program. It legalized a higher proportion of illegal aliens than the Bush amnesty would (as proposed), but to be sure, the Bush amnesty would legalize far more illegal aliens in total numbers than the Reagan amnesty did.
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