Rabbi Aviner: Killing Terrorists is Always Moral

Israel National News ^ | 15:56 Dec 07, '04 / 24 Kislev 5765

[wizardoz]

Is it also no big deal when the Iraqis do the same to our guys?

Far as I can tell, they already do. They don't seem to have waited for my approval.

[malakhi]

the point is the enmity relationship with Christianity when in fact Christians ... are helping to save their hind ends

You cannot understand the general Jewish wariness of Christians without giving at least some consideration to history.

The point also is that a literally killing anti-Christian jihad would appear to lurk below the surface of some of their theology.

You've twice made this claim without providing the least shred of evidence to substantiate it.

[malakhi]

ask any chabadnik (and many ordinary Orthodox) Jews what they consider it does to a Jewish soul to believe in Jesus. (Hey, why are you saying that Kaddish for poor deluded sister Susan who is now going to the Baptist church? Isn't she very much alive? No, you say?) Then ask them what ought to be done with "killers." Add two and two, get four.

Very well.

Alouette, please forgive the offensive nature of this question, but can you tell me if "a literally killing anti-Christian jihad" is lurking below the surface of your theology? (Please see post #22 and previous for context).

[Larry381]

Following reports that an IDF soldier shot a wounded Arab terrorist to death, a leading rabbi in the national-religious community justifies the killing of terrorists - wounded or otherwise

What me worry?

[Alouette]

can you tell me if "a literally killing anti-Christian jihad" is lurking below the surface of your theology?

Since HiTech is making the claim, maybe he can help us out by providing a list of beheading and honor killings carried out by ultra-Orthodox Jews over, say, the past 10 years.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[7.62 x 51mm]

I like and agree with his philosophy. That said, I hope the accused Marine who capped that subhuman POS in the mosque, gets a medal.

[Bella_Bru]

the point is the enmity relationship with Christianity when in fact Christians (a majority of America believes the bible is literally true) are helping to save their hind ends if not yet many of their souls

I am thankful for the Christians that support Israel without an agenda.

[zahal724]

Lets just make sure our guys dont get caught. And then, you ask, "But how can we make sure they wont get caught?"

I say, blow up the cities, or the part of cities that the terrorists are hiding in. If we kill some civilians, yes, thats a sad thing, but I'd rather our guys live than die.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Well they do have an agenda, it is to glorify God. These bible thumping fundie Christians, that loopy faith, just have this crazy idea, ya know, that the Jewish line is permanently marked with God's favor, even though they don't deserve it. Kind of like what these Jewish guys' prophets were telling them back in the (good/bad) old days... like the bible is actually true, what an odd notion! Christian humility comes (or should come) from the realization that they themselves too, did not deserve the favor that came to them from God.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Quite salutarily, there haven't been any "in the last 10 years." And from an earthly point of view at least, one hopes this detente will last forever. They have tried diligently to avoid the fault lines between themselves and Christians as much as they possibly can. Hence the bitter criticism of such as Bloom for writing books like Postville that have the effect of stirring things up rather than letting sleeping dogs lie.

If one looks at early New Testament times, when the Christian church was comprised mostly of lineal Jews and gentile proselytes who had come first to the Jewish faith, a different story emerges. To choose to be a Christian and to preach it was often viewed, frankly, as a killing offense, even though these Christians are not recorded as ever having put the sword to their nonbelieving Jewish counterparts. Such out of character behavior on part of the church was to come later, when the church had become virtually all gentile.

[Alouette]

Quite salutarily, there haven't been any "in the last 10 years."

Well, how about the last 1000 years?

Hence the bitter criticism of such as Bloom for writing books like Postville that have the effect of stirring things up

GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK.

He tried to whip up anti-Semitism in a small town and then he whined because the Jews didn't send him champagne and chocolates. That's not exactly the Theo Van Gogh treatment.

[HiTech RedNeck]

let sleeping dogs lie

As a token of peace ("live in peace with all men, as much as it depends on you") I will ask my potentially inflammatory comments be deleted from this thread.

[HiTech RedNeck]

He tried to whip up anti-Semitism in a small town

I've been following that thread, and color me skeptical. Occam's razor says that, at worst, he wanted to shame what he viewed as religious zealotry, and gain some dollars and fame off of a book. True anti-semitism (as opposed to anti-religiosity) would come down on his own head.

[Alouette]

True anti-semitism (as opposed to anti-religiosity) would come down on his own head.

Hyper-secular Jews never realize this until it is too late.

[HiTech RedNeck]

The Nazis' Holocaust gives the lie to that notion. A very large segment of those Jews who perished were quite irreligious or professed a different religion; Hitler didn't care. Do you think they went after Corrie ten Boom because she believed in Roman Catholicism?

[SausageDog]

"Well they do have an agenda, it is to glorify God. These bible thumping fundie Christians, that loopy faith, just have this crazy idea, ya know, that the Jewish line is permanently marked with God's favor, even though they don't deserve it."

What do you mean by "Jewish line?" Biological descendancy from Abraham doesn't count. "[D]o not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for a father,' for I say to you that God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham."

Do you think that those who call themselves Jews today are the inheritors of the covenant promise?

[safisoft]

Do you think that those who call themselves Jews today are the inheritors of the covenant promise?

You DON'T? What Bible are you reading?

Jeremiah 33:19-26:
19 And the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah, saying, 20 “Thus says the Lord: 'If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season, 21 then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers. 22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.'” 23 Moreover the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah, saying, 24 “Have you not considered what these people have spoken, saying, ‘The two families which the Lord has chosen, He has also cast them off’? Thus they have despised My people, as if they should no more be a nation before them. 25 “Thus says the Lord: ‘If My covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26 then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them.’"

In other words, BEWARE of what you say about Jews not being the descendants of Abraham.

Since you may not know there was anything to the left of that page that says, "New Testament" on it and didn't know that there WAS a book of Jeremiah, maybe you've read this one:

Romans 3:2:
"1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God."

Romans 11:28b-29:
"...but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. "

[SausageDog]

John 8:39-45 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father."

Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds your father."

They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God."

Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.

"Why do not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand for the truth, because there is not truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar and the father of lies.

"But because I speak the truth, you do not believe me."