Posted on 11/24/2004 2:26:02 PM PST by b2stealth
I dont get it, Are the Russians ther to protect the person who they believe is the rightful winner or are they there to place their own person in?
I am coming in late here, sorry!
And another story reports that the only independent news source has been shut down.
Iron Curtain.
The Ukraine just can't seem to crawl out from under the shadow of the Bear. Another ethnic war against Russia forming?
Unfortunately second version is the right one.
This "information" and "documents" being, what, exactly?
all bs... These are not necessary.
the Ukranian Govt. got 15k Ukranian troops in the Capital Kiev with the protesters having 120k people
http://www.ukrnow.com/content/view/1964/2/
Plus Kuchma mobilized artillery and tank divisions from dnepropetrovsk if necessary.
http://www.ukrnow.com/content/view/1957/2/
they kept shuttling people from the 21st onward to the capital from lvow, ivano frankovsk, uzhgorod basicly the west to make it seem like the capital is uprising which it might be just the majority of the people arent natives.
Ok if the Russian troops "are not necessary" what is your explanation for why they were allowed in?
Or, do you dispute that Russian troops are there in the first place? Multiple sources are reporting this.
Anyway, the article above gives a specific reason they are there, to retrieve "information" or "documents". It doesn't say what those "documents" might be. Since you don't think it's happening at all, I guess to you it doesn't matter.
Wonder how Eluminate feels about the Baltics? Georgia? Belarus? Just where does Mother Russia stop and the rest of the world begin, anyway?
This is nothing more than lies designed to heat up the battle of words. The present president has more than enough ethnic Russians in the military on his side. Furthermore, this would be a complete misuse of Special Forces.
i dont think the story has merit think of it realisticly for a second if the army is controlled by the current president who promised law and order to be enforced why would they shuttle anyone from outside?
Look just think of it this way these went 90% for yanukovich there is no disputing the fact everyone is disputing the fact of how big the turnout was... in both east and west.
Crimea 2 mil
Nikolaevka 1.5mil
Melitopolska 1.5mil
Donetsk 4.7 mil
Dnepropetrovsk 2 mil
Lughanska 2mil
Kharkovska 3 mil
Kerchenksa 1.5 mil
Russian speaking regions that went about 90 to 3 for Yanukovich. The turnout was above 80% all over so both sides fudged it a bit but dude noone disputes that it was below 70%
Eluminate is the rusky provocateur, ignore his drivel.
I went to the link and it says source: OBKOM
by that does it mean Oblastnoi Commitie? if so where is this Regional Commitie at ? Lvov? Ivano Frankovsk? ...
You tell me. It is being reported that this has, indeed, happened.
If so, he did for a reason. What is the answer? "Why would he?" is not an answer. It is the question.
Of course, if those reports are incorrect, then so be it. Do you have a good reason for believing them to be incorrect? "Why would he?" is not, in my view, a good reason.
The turnout was above 80% all over so both sides fudged it a bit but dude noone disputes that it was below 70%
These numbers thrown out there are all very interesting but there is an underlying factual matter at issue which is, in total (don't tell me about this region or that region) did Ya. or Yu. get more total votes? I don't know the answer to that but that is the issue.
Anyway, if it is indeed true that Ya. caused Russian special forces troops to be allowed into the country that lends credibility to the opposition charges that the election was tampered with, in my mind. If you don't believe that Russian troops went into Ukraine that's very nice but you don't seem to have an actual tangible reason for believing it to be untrue. Let me know if you find one you can point me to. Best,
Here's one possible way: The former are not already in Ukraine, but arrive there from elsewhere, by landing at an airport where a Ukrainian colonel resigns rather than letting them land.
Do I know that the story in that link is accurate? No. Do I have any reason to believe that it's inaccurate? Not yet. Give me one. eluminate did not.
Yes, I would dispute it [that Russian troops are there]. This is a total misuse of SF.
Yes, it perhaps would be, depending on the mission. That doesn't mean that they are not there. This argument is just as weak as saying "Why would he?". You're right, if Putin or some Russian general sent SF to Ukraine, that'd probably be a misuse of those SF.
But maybe that's what happened. Maybe Russia has misused their SF in precisely this way. What - do nations never misuse their SF? I wouldn't say that the US has never misused its SF.
I also don't want to get into hair-splitting about what kind of forces these might be. I mean, perhaps they are Russian soldiers/forces/troops of some kind, but not "Special Forces" (spetsnaz) per se. I certainly hope this type of thing is not the basis on which some are arguing with me.
I believe it is nothing more than bald faced lies to trump up the charges by the opposition against the present government.
Ok. Interesting "belief". Meanwhile I'll keep my mind open and look for facts.
I find it extremely interesting that not only do these reports identify Russian SF in Ukrainian uniforms, but they also know the motives of these troops. Somebody is smoking funny smelling weed.
Well, I tend to agree with you. The article is rather conspiratorial and vague in nature, and I called them on it.
BTW, I spent six years on a Special Forces A-Team. My wife's nephew is in the Russian Special Forces and just left for his fourth trip to Chechnya. I've heard nothing but lies from TTS and several others regarding Russia on these boards.
Understood.
Is it so inconceivable however that Putin sees an interest in Ukraine (perhaps indeed for understandable reasons such as due to the large Russian-speaking population there) and assented to sending a military force of some kind to protect the Ya. government, which he saw as more friendly to Russian interests (or - to put it another way - not in the back pocket of Europeans, US, Soros, whoever, like he might think Yu. is)? Best,
P.S. Lithuania/Vilnius would seem to provide a relevant, and not entirely dissimilar, precedent for use of Russian special forces in this fashion. Of course, I would be happy to agree that that was a "misuse" of SF. Yet it happened nevertheless did it not?
The cited article gives source: OBKOM (wtf does it mean?)
if its what I said below this is a total bs made up story.
The link cites OBKOM as the source of the information that Russia is landing troops. does it mean Oblastanoi Commitet which means Regional Commitie if so where is it located. I went to the link and OBKOM means jack squat if its the regional commitie of a pro-yuschenko region of western ukraine.
The Russian Troops are necessary as Kuchma has already been advised that the Ukrainian Army will not turn on its own.
Putin has invested much political capital in this daring move and he is scared that he will need his own troops to see it through.
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