Posted on 11/24/2004 12:28:54 PM PST by FairOpinion
" We cannot accept this result as legitimate because it does not meet international standards and because there has not been an investigation of the numerous and credible reports of fraud and abuse. "
Well, some said this about our election in 2000. Would we want other countries to start "getting involved" in our elections, and declare them officially invalid???
Note that in the same statement he also said:
"SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I had a good conversation with Minister Lavrov. What we are both interested in right now is finding a solution to this problem, a solution that is based on the law and using legal procedures to resolve these allegations of fraud, well-substantiated allegations from Senator Lugar and OSCE monitors and other monitors, and what we are trying to do now is to use diplomacy and use political actions to resolve this.
We're not looking for a contest with the Russians over this."
While I find Powell's statement about the legitimacy of the election inflammatory, the press has been misrepresenting it, because they weren't reporting on the second part, which softened his stand considerably.
I'm sure the United States should be extremely worried about the Ukrainian election. After all, we have the democracies in Saudi Arabia, China, Malaysia and other assorted rascals too numerous to mention, upholding our vision of Democracy and Freedom.
Exactly. Your sarcasm was noted. :)
The current Ukraine government stood with us in the War with Iraq, they sent, what, for them, is a large number of troops. That is what should matter to us.
stop spreading this. fair elections are what should, and what does, matter to the US government.
...fair elections are what should, and what does, matter to the US government.
FWIW Powell's statement on Ukranian goings-on.
The current Ukrainian government and their current candidate is a bunch of common criminals (actually, new "president-elect" Yanukovich himself had two convictions for robberies).
The amount of the election fraud in the eastern (pro-russian) districts of Ukraine is staggering.
The US has no reason to support this Russian-sponsored sham, and I am glad that the reaction is so swift and forceful. That's the only way to apply pressure on the gang in power, because their main concern is getting their US and EU visas and safety of their US and EU bank accounts.
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Privet, dorogoy!Da, u nas slozhnoe vremya.
Kuchma s Yanukovichem sfal'tsifiroval vybory. I takimi gryaznymi metodami. Oni dali bol'she milliona otkrpepnykh talonov i ugolovniki ezdili po strane i golosovali po pyat' i bol'she raza. A takzhe nasil'no zabirali u lyudey pasporta i po nim tozhe golosovali za Yanukovicha. A v Donetske tak voobshe neinteresovalo mnenie lyudey, vbrasyvali ugolovnye ehlementy v urny nuzhnye byulletni. Seychas ves' narod na ulitse otstaivaet svoi prava. A segodnya TsVK ob'yavila podbedu Yanukovicha, takoy tsinism. Kuchma ne poyavlyaetsya pered narodom, govoryat on v zapoe.
Raduet, chto mnogie goroda prinyali na sessiyakh reshenie o tom, chto podchinyatsya budut tol'ko Yushchenko.
Kieyvlyane progolosovali za Yushchenko 75 protsentov i Omel'chenko, mehr Kieva, prinyal reshenie na Kievsovete o podderzhke Yushchenko.
K Kievu podtyagivayutsya voyska i tekhnika, militsiya. No samoe strashnoe, chto Putin prisylaet omonovtsev, kotorye pereodevayutsya v nashu formu i im prikazano strelyat, esli bol'she 50 chelovek narushit granitsu, kotoruyu oni okhranyayut.
Polozhenie strashnoe."Hello!
"Yes, we are in complicated times.
"Kuchma and Yanukovich did a fake election, and with such dirty methods. They gave out more than a million voter forms and criminals travelled about the country and voted five or more times. And they even took people's passports by force and used these to vote for Yanukovich. And even in Donetsk they could care less about the people's opinion, they just tossed ballots in whatever boxes they felt like. Now the entire (Ukrainian) people is on the street demanding their rights. Today the TsVK (Central election commission?) declared Yanukovich's victory, such cynicism. Kuchma won't show his face in public, they say he's on a bender.
"It makes one happy that many cities have held special sessions and decided that they will not follow anyone but Yushchenko.
"Kyiv residents voted for Yushchenko by 75%, and Omel'chenko the mayor of Kyiv and the city counsel has voted their support of Yushchenko.
"Troops and armored vehicles are moving toward Kyiv, as well as police. But the most frightening is that Putin is sending OMON (SWAT) police, dressed in our uniforms and they've been ordered to shoot if more than 50 people cross the border of what they are protecting.
"The situation is frightening."
And how many Democrats in the US wrote similar letter to people outside the US after the 2000 US election? Or did you forget that they are still saying that Bush was "selected, not elected"?
I don't put much credibility to some e-mail written by who know who.
whom
OK, this is real simple. the entire world, liberal, conservative, us, canada, eu, bush, powell, nato, un ALL say it was fraudulent. one country says it wasnt. russia. are you saying that you would disagree with all these people and believe putin?
The entire world wants to break up our budding alliance with Russia. Do you think the Ukrainian elections are important enough for our national security, that we should let them put a wedge between us and Russia, who is our best counterbalance against the likes of Chirac and Schroeder?
WHAT?? you are saying the US, powell and bush want to drive a wedge between the US and russia???? your not making sense. like i said...in case you missed it EVERYONE is opposed to the results of this election except for putin. you are siding with him. not the us, not bush, you are just siding with putin.
also, i wont agree to sacrifice the biggest country in europe for a budding alliance with anyone.
No -- I am saying that Powell's statement has been played up out of context by the media.
The entire world wants to break up our budding alliance with Russia. Do you think the Ukrainian elections are important enough for our national security, that we should let them put a wedge between us and Russia, who is our best counterbalance against the likes of Chirac and Schroeder?
that has nothing to do with powell's statement being played out of context. freedom of europe's biggest country is not a bargaining chip.
Ping
We didn't attack Russia when they took over all the countries around it and created the Soviet Union, we didn't attack them, when they took over Eastern Europe, and expanded their influence to Cuba and S. America and now you think we should go to war with them over Ukraine?
How many of those do we or anyone else consider democracies?
what??? when did i say we should go to war?
we should support democracy and not let it get corrupted by russian forces in a foreign country.
as a matter of fact, the us and great britain looked the other way when the soviets took over eastern europe. and it turned out to be the biggest problem of the 20th century. you know...that whole cold war thingy.
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