Posted on 11/21/2004 12:10:21 AM PST by Remember_Salamis
Ding! And here's a cigar for ya. ; )
Well said. No way this "fair" (sic) tax is gonna fly once the truth gets out.
Two thoughts:
1) If it's going to happen, it needs to happen in the next two years before the 2008 race gets started, otherwise the pols will get cold feet as they usually do with anything that means major changes.
2) Any fair tax bill MUST also be accompanied by legislation that will not only eliminate the IRS but also clearly and formally forbid the re-introduction of the federal income tax! Why? Because once the socialists (you know them as "Democrats") return to power, they and a few RINO chums are just as likely to re-start the income tax **without** eliminating the national sales tax.
If we can't get guarantees written into the bill that expressly forbid the re-introduction of the federal income tax, watch the libs jump on the bandwagon here, posturing as big tax reformers, only to have them return to the income tax well just as soon as they have the votes to pass it.
We, as citizens, need to insist that this gets written into the law or we will regret the day we got talked into an extra tax.
Don't drink the Kool-Aid, folks. You don't need to subsidize the tax burden of other people's businesses with your dollars.
"We paid out the @ss for FICA and personal income tax from the 70's to the present day, and after we got our little pile of pennies together to retire on, you're going to come back for yet another bite so Fortune 500 companies can stop paying corporate income taxes and billionaires can avoid capital-gains and inheritance taxes?"
-- So let's f*ck EVERY FUTURE GENERATION so the most selfish and spoiled generation in US history can continue to live comfortably, while their children (my generation) pay for it?
Your rant against "Fortune 500" companies and "billionares" sounds truly marxist my friend. Will you soon begin to rant against the evils of Wal-Mart's "excessive profits"?
It sucks that taxes have been so high for decades and that the tax system has been broken since the New Deal. But that's no reason to keep the broken system in place. Also, I would go into detail on why retirees wouldn't suffer under the FairTax, but you don't seem like the type that would listen. So instead, just educate yourself:
http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/seniors.html
-- Do you really want to take home 1/2 more?
Somehow I doubt anyone here has 50% of their gross pay withheld.
"encouraging lower tax rates"?
Huh? Ours is in the top three highest of all states (and if a recent initiative had passed, we would be THE highest in the US). It's crept steadily upwards in the 15 years I've lived here. The low (or zero) rates of our neighboring states don't seem to encourage lower taxes at all. If you read my earlier post, it encourages the enforcement of our in-state taxes, effectively nixing any "competition".
-- I'm a Californian (but living abroad in the military). And there's a phenomenon going on out West wherein California businesses are simply flocking to low-tax Arizona and essentially NO-tax Nevada. The CA economy will continue to hemmorage until they adjust the tax code to attract businesses.
I think thats too high as well. From what I've read 17 percent would more than equal the current revenue. A Value Added Tax would be lower yet, say around 10% because its added at each step from source to consumer, which means you would be taxing the tax, but it has worked for many countries very well, and it keeps the tax rate low.
We need Tax reform, of that there is no doubt I'm not s fan of a National Sales Tax, or as it's been called a Consumption Tax.Especially if it doesn't exempt certain foods and milk,you know the staples of life Simplification is sorely needed, it's a crime that for almost any American, the tax system the Government imposes on the people is so full a crap and regulations that out of necessity a taxpayer, it can be argued is Mandated to use a Tax preparer of some sort. I do not believe the Government has a right to make me use a private enterprise, but it does every April.The most simplified of Income Tax seems to be a Flat Tax.
"You're already paying that 23% elsewhere but it's hidden."
What makes you think the hidden 23% is going away, just because they will add a blatant 23%?
I could see a sales tax as being good in that you would get tax $$ from people like Terry Kerry, who are stinking rich but have no earned income. But I can also see that it would be very regressive, and I don't like the idea of it applying to food or clothing. One think I like about NJ is no sales tax on clothes. Took me YEARS to get used to that.
Flat INCOME Tax of 15%. Everyone > $29,999 is taxed. No cap gains, estate, interest, gift, excise taxes period.
Deductions for Real Estate, Med Expenses, Certain Bus Expenses.
No National Sales Tax.
Sorry, that should be 1/3. And that is true when you consider that ALL payroll taxes will be removed along with income taxes. In some circumstances, that could reach into the 40th percentile for the backbone of our economy, the upwardly-mobile upper middle class.
I've read the 17% number too, but It's based on revenue post-2001 Bush tax cuts. Ancient_Geezer would know more on that than I would.
Well, OK, I'll give you that it might *encourage* lower tax rates. But, as you say, CA doesn't seem to be responding. Much to the dismay of its residents, no doubt.
BTW, thank you for your service to our country.
"Flat INCOME Tax of 15%. Everyone > $29,999 is taxed. No cap gains, estate, interest, gift, excise taxes period.
Deductions for Real Estate, Med Expenses, Certain Bus Expenses.
No National Sales Tax."
-- What about payroll taxes???
Ah, but you see the idea is to get rid of the irs alltogether. No private citizen would ever have to fill out income taxes again.
Your method still keeps that albatross around our necks.
With either a VAT or a national sales tax you never worry about income tax again, businesses do the collection, and they are already set up to do it due to state and local sales tax.
At the high point of the hemorraging, they kicked out a governor and elected Arnold. It's a start, but Sacremento is home to the most left-wing legislature East of Pyongyang. But when the point was at it's worst, the people spoke up.
It happens on the international stage too. Ireland dramatically cut taxes in the mid-1990s and has been an economic vacuum cleaner in Western Europe ever since. The French and Belgians are so worried about it that they're trying to get the EU regualtory board to order Irealnd to raise their taxes ("harmonize" them, as they call it).
Did it ever occure to you that those two sentences are at odds with each other?
Why would the foreign goods not be exported from country of origin tax free, just like our goods would be>
Don't forget to mention that the tax cut all Americans whould recieve in lower compliance costs if the income tax was abolished.
Kona,
But couldn't the IRS be WAY reduced with the flat tax? Wouldn't employers be doing the collecting? The huge simplification to the system ought to eliminate a huge portion of the current IRS structure.
(I have no quarrel with getting rid of the IRS, just wondering if a flat tax could work)
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