Posted on 11/17/2004 1:55:47 PM PST by neverdem
It must be nice to be naive.
There's that "belief" again. No fact, just feeling. And, that's fine...it is your right & I most certainly respect it.
Oh, and please do me the courtesy not arbitrarily calling my owning of a gun(s) a stock-pile. It makes you sound like you're completely uninformed and have no interest in an honest & sincere debate.
Pardon me, but isn't the right to self protection...that is, NOT to submit & allow ones self to be murdered a "human right"?
No - that is not a logical progression. If it applied to other citizens our government could not infringe upon it. The governing contract involves the US Government as the governing power. It restricts the US government - but under no reading could one ever say it requires the US government to go around the world enforcing those rights. It just limits the US government's powers.
Though how is the Constitution phrased on the requirement of republican form of government?
Amen, brother. Amen. And that's why we'll always be free, if we have the brains and courage to know when we're supposed to pull that rip cord. Hopefully never.
We do have a mandate, the 2nd Amendment, to restrict government from making laws abridging our gun rights.
If other people elsewhere have the same rights given by God, then they have a responsibility to create a government that guarantees them.
Not us, them.
We will, of course, cheer them on. We might even help if asked, but we have no obligation to do so.
You are right - there is a right to be alive. That doesn't mean the right to own a gun - but the right not to be killed. Its a restrictive right rather than affirmative.
But if that was a universal right, wouldn't it extend to everyone? And therefore everyone should be able to own arms and whatever arms they want?
How would you propose to keep that right to stay alive?
Good point - but still leaves my second question unanswered.
In addition, how would you propose to protect the right of self-detrermination, free speech, etc? If you believe personal gun ownership is the way to protect all those rights - so be it. I have never seen evidence saying that is necessary - otherwise the UK would be a dictatorship by now.
Is God selective on the distribution of rights?
Instead it has the dubious distinction of having the highest violent crime rate in the western world, and wadda ya know.....the subjects can't carry guns.
Right - but our government couldn't interfere and prevent those rights, could it? It also has no duty to affirmatively protect - but we couldn't go in there and overthrow their government and put in a dictatorship, could we? In the same way, if gun ownership is universal, we cannot prevent their citizenry from having guns. We don't need to protect it, but cannot affirmatively prevent it.
Can I see your facts on that? I was under the impression that it had a high non-violent crime rate, but lower murder rate than the US.
http://www.gunsandcrime.org/highs.html
Now you want facts? What happened to those feelings?
I see what you are saying (saw the 'facts'). Although remember that the UK has a highest unemployment rate and much of the increase in violent crime occurred before the ban on handguns. Also, the murder rate is lower.
The US incarceration rate is much higher than the UK. Perhaps getting the criminals off the streets does more to prevent crime....
In numbers, only because of the size of their island. Per capita, it is in fact, higher.
Perhaps getting the criminals off the streets does more to prevent crime....
ABSOLUTELY! Keep the criminals in jail for the entire length of their sentence, something that we both know is hardly ever done.
Are you sure? I saw per capita it was lower...
Look at Britain - that is a MUCH more accurate comparison given its level of technology and educated citizenery. The facts there bear out differently.
I haven't checked recently, but if you want to check murder rates(all weapons) as of 2001,
. Strathclyde(where 1/2 of Britain's crime is outside of Northern Ireland) had 380,000 people and 82 murders.
The only areas in my state which were worse were Detroit and Flint.
Detroit - about 400 murders(homicides actually) and then 950,000 people.
Flint - About 130,000 people and 32 murders.
My county - 165,000 and 2(at least one was a knife).
My state is moderately strict on pistols as well.
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