Posted on 11/16/2004 4:34:34 AM PST by Atlanta
Surely you've been here long enough that you should know Freepers, for the most part, are for justice and getting all the facts out!
You are so quick to condemn this Marine....but I don't see you condemn the MSM who apparently was frothing at the mouth with this juicy tidbit they ran against proper channels to make sure the likes of Chrissy Mathews and others ....ie, CNN....have their tasty morsels for the dinner news.
You should know the Marines will give this proper attention and investigation......but how hard will that be now when every foaming at the mouth MSM pundit rakes it thoroughly though the mud!!!!!
That disgusts me....and it disgusts a LOT of other folks here too!!!!!!!!!!
How can the loopy Sites rationalize his feverish rush to publish this story? Who else was there to scoop him?
Guennie -
Didn't we hear that in Vietnam Kerry shot an injured man in the back who was running away?
I seem to remember that story and can't remember if it was in the book Unfit for Command or if it was something Kerry admitted to doing.
#117...Where in the world did you get that assumption?????
Thanks for ping.
Will call and try to help.
No, I do not condem him. The tape does that.
My point is, let's not spend our PR ammunition calling for support before an investigation is complete.
Also, his state of mind and what he knew will be important. IF he did not know about the prior events in the location AND he was told the area was secure. THEN he is not guilty in my opinion.
Fighting the Good Fight
Diane Alden
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004
The other night I watched Mel Gibson's cinematic version of Colonel Hal Moore's book "We Were Soldiers Once...And Young."
I can barely sit through it without a deep wrenching in my gut. The film doesn't simply deal with the brutal battle that took place in the Ia Drang Valley; a battle that signaled the start of the REAL fighting war in Vietnam. The movie rang particularly true as it dealt with the experiences of the wives and families of the men who fought in that oddest of American wars.
I don't believe the movie is simply about the Vietnam War. It is really about the kind of men who have fought in all of America's wars. The men, and more recently the women, who fight and die and live on to protect this nation and its freedoms. They are a gift from God. Our wars of recent memory have gone beyond fighting for nothing but American interests. Hardly a war in the last 100 years has actually been about what America wanted or needed. If that were the case we would have stayed home and tended to business.
Certainly none of our recent wars were about claiming territory or treasure; that is unless you accept the notions of America haters who think nothing we have ever done, or will ever do, has any merit or goodness associated with it. For the most part, the American soldier fighting in wars America felt compelled to fight has not done so out of hatred for the enemy.
The American soldier fights for reasons I personally don't believe have ever been understood by the rest of American society. Some have fought because they were drafted. Some have served or fought because it was a way out of their particular class or personal situation.
A few have done it for adventure or to see the world. A contingent do it to prove something to themselves and others. But movies such as "We Were Soldiers" tell us a bit why young and not so young Americans put themselves in harm's way.
The American soldier fights for the people who are with him on the battlefield, for his family and those he leaves behind, and finally for his country.
One reason is not more important than the another. They are of a piece. The reasons are a seamless garment that drives men into the valley of death; to give up life, limb and time, sacrificing big chunks of youth, mental health, ambitions, for the sake of others, for country and countrymen.
Most of the time the sacrifice is for folks who could never possibly understand or fully appreciate the totality of that sacrifice. That was true in Vietnam as it was true more recently in Iraq. It is true of all wars and those who fight them. Perhaps the worst part of war isn't the possibility of dying or losing a limb. The worst part of war has always been the baggage those who return to families and their country must endure because of their experiences.
It is strange that the two wars that divided America most terribly, the Civil War and the Vietnam War, in fact, created more baggage than most.
The Civil War left half the country reeling in defeat. A defeat resolved a hundred years after the fact. On the other hand, the Vietnam War left half the young generation who fought in it, and their families, choking in stunned silence.
Up until recently Vietnam vets didn't feel comfortable speaking of "the war" or their experiences in it. Their families simply wanted to forget what was lost, what was stolen, what was made unutterable.
Unforgivable was the oppressive silence imposed on them. A silence imposed by war protestors whose hatred of America and what it stood for trumped all else including the truth. Lost to history is the notion that Vietnam was not just an Asian civil war as much as it was a war about communism and Soviet and Chinese hegemony over half the world.
Either way, America and American soldiers did not come as conquerers but as good guys trying to do what they believed would help the most people towards freedom. Silly us, idealistic us, noble us. The truth is the American soldier didn't hate the Vietnamese people. He was forced to fight those who held an ideology that was a lie and a profound evil.
The soldier in World War II didn't hate Germans. The demonic spector of Nazism and all it stood for is what forced him to sacrifice as few generations have sacrificed before.
The same may be said of the those who served in Korea, the Cold War, the Gulf, Afghanistan, Iraq and probably places we shall never know about. That sense of good and evil, right and wrong, freedom and oppression is a particularly acute American characteristic. So it is, in modern times, American wars have been about defeating those who advance the evil, cruel and deeply anti-human ideas spawned by evil men.
But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, soldiers in our times have also fought for each other, for family, for country. In America, it is our particularly quirky idea that we also fight for notions of liberty, the importance and sanctity of life, the God given rights of the individual as well as security at home and abroad. The greatest tribute to America's military came this last election cycle. The silence imposed on the Vietnam veteran has been broken. The silence created by 60s radical chic, the sincere but misguided, the ideologues who promoted the notion that all America stood for is a horror, the terminally self-righteous, defeatist; all of it lifted like a fog in the morning sun. What was truly amazing was how once strident war protestors - Hollywood stars like Barbra Streisand, John Forbes Kerry himself - actually turned military service, including service in Vietnam, into an honorable thing.
It's as though they had invented the idea of military service to the country called America and decided it was a good idea after all. What should create joy in the heart of the Vietnam vet in particular, is the sight and sound of the revisionist left presenting comparisons of who served and who did not serve in America's military.
It tickled me to see the internet flooded with dueling military records, cyber wars begun by the left, as they "exposed" military service between Democrats and Republicans. Throw in conservative media, concluding Democrats gave more service than Republicans. At that moment, for me, the Vietnam War officially ended. Our side won. The American soldier of all eras won his greatest victory in 2004. By their actions the hard left as well as those who no longer believe in what America attempts to stand for, claim military service as a sign of people who had or have the "right stuff" and those who didn't.
The great "karma fairy" flew high and proud this fall. It blessed the vets and what they accomplished as America bashers honored those they had previously despised and spit upon. This Veteran's Day, we have men and women fighting all over the world: particularly in Afghanistan and Iraq. The left senses the mood of the country and doesn't overtly condemn those serving at this time particularly since 9/11.
Meanwhile, the American soldier is being called upon to conquer another "ism." This ism is an idea and its adherents rationalize the most barbaric practices and principles on a twisted form of an ancient religion. The American soldier is expected to prevail while at the same time not harboring hatred or animosity towards the cruelest of enemies, the ungrateful it attempts to free, the contempt of American hating idealists in their own country. Nonetheless, the powers-that-be on all sides. left and right, are letting our soldiers down - again. Many of the 170,000 returning soldiers struggle as they attempt to reenter civilian life. Good paying jobs are much more scarce, red tape is exponentially voluminous, and health care for the returnees stinks.
Yet again, we are failing to honor those who have served.
As in the past we have made promises to veterans and on occasion we act like Scrooge and give them a lump of coal and call it good. Once more our promises to the American soldier are not being honored in a sincere and thorough way. Once again we are dishonoring those who kept their promise to this nation. Over the decades I have come to understand some of the reasons for all this: The problem with this nation has never been the kind of soldiers it sends into the field of battle. The problem is with the leaders who send them in harm's way and then allows them to suffer and die while it rationalizes what is politically expedient.
We have experienced leaders who fail to deliver on promises made but worse, leaders who often consider the needs of the enemy and those who support that enemy - above those of America's fighting men and women. Our national problem has always been leaders seldom as great, as honorable, as selfless, as truly American as the men and women they send into battle. With few exceptions, our soldiers and veterans, honored this nation called America. They have honored what this country stands for; the least we can do is to keep promises we made to them. Since I am into poetry these days I have to end this tribute and dedicate this to our past, present, and future soldiers, sailors, airmen and of course to my beloved Marine Corps on their 200 plus birthday. An excerpt from Vietnam veteran Gary Jacobsen's - "Oh How Can I Keep From Singing":
O, how can I keep from singing...
I’m going home
Thank God, at last I’m going home
To a place my restful soul can at last atone
Free at last from making this fevered land free
O, the parades I'll see
From a thankful nation back home waiting...
Abiding patiently is that nation I fought for
Almost died for
Gratefully loving
This favored son they sent far away to do his duty
I'll come home to open arms spread welcoming
To an indebted nation deeply caring
Beholden that for them I’ve fought the good fight
But now I’m leaving this warring land behind
To trade my hating for the loving mind
For peace I hope to find
O yes, how can I keep from singing...
The fact is our American fighting folk are overdue the honor they deserve. On this Veterans Day and all the days to come, keeping our promises to them should be a priority. It is the honorable thing to do.
Kerry is a war hero, don't you know :^
I'm with you.
Having never served in combat though and as simple as I am, I still can see the Marine's actions as just because one of his buddies had been killed while taking care of an insurgent's body which was booby rigged.
As a patrol Cpl told me once - it's much better having a jury of twelve try me than for six pallbearers to lay me to rest.
The media needs a proverbial shot in the head too.
The 2nd and 3rd. sites you had up will not work. I sent one to the first however.
Not an assumption. He has discussed it on air several times.
what unit is your son in?
Agreed. I e-mailed my honorable congressman, Steve King. I know I didn't need to do it as he got in a whole heap of trouble with libs because he condemned the excessive MSM coverage of the Abu Ghraib "scandal". Congressman Steve King is a true patriot.
ok lawyer.... where are your extenuating circumstances for a dude who had just seen a buddy killed by an "injured" terrorist and had been himself shot in the face the day before?
and do you think it is just peachy for the guy with the camcorder to pass the video to everyone in the world, if indeed it was a crime scene, instead of giving it to the military? And for him to tell the soldier after they had gone in to the mosque and killed the terrorist that these were terrorists who were wounded the day before?
Easy for you to sit on your butt and be a monday morning quarterback. My heart is with the marine.
In the media's opinion the investigation has begun, ended and found the Marine guilty!!!!
This thread was started by someone who hoped for a little bit of pro-active activism by those of us who are sick and tired of these MSM games!!!!!
I will cease arguing with you....or whatever I'm doing....
..if you clearly can't or won't see this, I'm just wasting my time anyway!
I am four-square behind this Marine. Let God judge. Only He knows for sure what happened.
He is a Quisling. NBC is infested with Quislings. Even Dan Rather, at least yesterday, stood up for the Marine by saying that in the fog of war this happens.
He read a prepared statement saying, "troops have been professional," "the situation was very confusing" and "only the soldier knows if he felt threatened."
Apparently, someone informed him of the rule of "percieved threat"
(one point for Just Dan) :-)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.