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Broward machines count backward
PalmBeachPost.com ^ | 11/05/2004 | Eliot Kleinberg

Posted on 11/05/2004 7:47:45 PM PST by RogerWilko

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To: dcam
Blasphemer! DUmmies use windoze more than they do linux!

And some FReepers actually use linux, yanno....

41 posted on 11/05/2004 8:24:36 PM PST by thulldud (It's bad luck to be superstitious.)
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To: RogerWilko

No mystery to a programmer. (No excuse, either, but...)

The computer wasn't programmed to count down. That's just the way a computer will work when someone tries to add one more to a counter that is so at its maximum value.

Remember that computers use binary (base-2) numbers, not decimal (base-10) as we do. Imagine a car odometer that is at 999999 and you add one more mile. It will roll over to 000000. Oops.

Similarly, a 16-digit binary number is not uncommon on older hardware and it turns out that this means it will roll over at 32,768 (which is 2^15). Exactly what happens at that point can vary based on hardware, but one possibility is that it rolls over to 0, but then starts counting negative (-1, -2, -3, ...).

Which sounds suspiciously like what happened here.

The problem is that a programmer: 1) used a counter that is too small for the task at hand, and 2) did not check to see if the counter was at its maximum before trying to add one more to it.


42 posted on 11/05/2004 8:25:22 PM PST by the Wayne
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To: RogerWilko

This is mathematically possible when the voters were acting in negative space, or in an alternate universe. Say, voting for the Socialist/Progressive/Liberal/Dem named Kerry.


43 posted on 11/05/2004 8:27:03 PM PST by searchandrecovery (Best Election EVER!)
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To: thulldud

But the whole concept of "free software" is so liberal. Kind of like free health care, etc.


44 posted on 11/05/2004 8:27:18 PM PST by rivercat (Welcome to California. Now go home.)
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To: RogerWilko
Why a voting system would be designed to count backward was a mystery to Broward County Mayor Ilene Lieberman.

Any programmer worth his salt can figure that out from here.

Change the "signed short" to "signed long", and the problem's fixed (at least until you get a really really big turnout).

45 posted on 11/05/2004 8:27:30 PM PST by narby (WE are now the Mainstream - Enjoy)
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To: RogerWilko

Why in the hell can't they just use a simple color in the circle paper ballot like the absentee ballots?!?!?


46 posted on 11/05/2004 8:27:33 PM PST by edchambers
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To: RogerWilko

I wonder if Miss Harris would report voter fraud if it implicated Kerry.


47 posted on 11/05/2004 8:28:51 PM PST by BROKKANIC
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To: RogerWilko
The glitch affected only the 97,434 absentee ballots, Broward Elections Supervisor Brenda Snipes said. All were placed in their own precincts and optical scanners totaled votes, which were then fed to a main computer.

Hmmmmmm. Affected only the absentee ballots, huh?

48 posted on 11/05/2004 8:30:56 PM PST by Carolina
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To: Blood of Tyrants

"0000 0000 0000 0011 = +2"

Oops, actually that's 3, not 2.


49 posted on 11/05/2004 8:33:55 PM PST by KingKongCobra
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To: Fitzcarraldo
Cripes - who programmed these machines didn't declared their variables to be long unsigned int Shame on them!

amazing. As a programmer, it is obvious that was the problem. It this was done by a government lackey, you could understand it; if it was contracted out, it was probably to an officials son. Broward, isn't that demoRat controlled? That would explain a lot.

50 posted on 11/05/2004 8:37:56 PM PST by liberty2004
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To: the Wayne
There is actually a solution available. If it is know that the count is over 32,767 -- but less than 65,536 -- then I can tell you exactly the correct vote tally.

Example: the computer reads a value of 25,000. We know that's bogus. We also know it was 'down-counting'. Therefore, the 32,768th ballot would show 32,766 on the meter; the next one shows 32,765, and so on.

Extrapolating this gives an actual count of 40,535. And given the uncertainty of things, I'd still call that +/- 2 votes. but of course there's no way anyone would ever certify such a calculation.

51 posted on 11/05/2004 8:40:03 PM PST by alancarp (When does it cease to be "Freedom of the Press" and become outright SEDITION?)
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To: RogerWilko

This is a non story. It only affects absentee ballots. The absentee ballots are run through a scanner. They were only supposed to run so many through at a time.
It has nothing to do with the electronic voting machines.


52 posted on 11/05/2004 8:40:53 PM PST by kara37
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To: RogerWilko
In 2000 there were 565000 votes cast in Broward county Florida and it went 2:1 for Gore.

In 2004 there were 695000 votes in Broward county and it also went 2:1 for Kerry.

So in both 2000 and 2004 we have the same ratio of Democrat votes to Republican votes but in 2004 there is an increase of 130000 votes over the year 2000. How the heck those morons are even bringing this issue with machines problems if there are more votes cast in 2004 then 2000.

Delusional liberals will get further delusional. It will be fun to watch them in the next four years.

53 posted on 11/05/2004 8:43:12 PM PST by jveritas
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To: kara37
This is a non story. It only affects absentee ballots. The absentee ballots are run through a scanner. They were only supposed to run so many through at a time. It has nothing to do with the electronic voting machines.

Somebody better tell this to the DUmmies! They think they got a hold of a HUGE story that's gonna give them back the election as they hand their cash over! HAH!

54 posted on 11/05/2004 8:45:49 PM PST by RogerWilko
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To: antisocialista
We're not all "Duh" here.

I know, I know... I just couldn't resist. :)

55 posted on 11/05/2004 8:46:40 PM PST by kezekiel
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To: Blood of Tyrants
A 16-bit signed integer counts from 0 to 32,767 by using just 0's and 1's like this 0000 0000 0000 0000 = +0, 0000 0000 0000 0001 = +1, 0000 0000 0000 0011 = +2, and so on until 0111 1111 1111 1111 = +32,767. The very next number is 1000 0000 0000 0000 and instead of +32,768, the number represents -0 and 1000 0000 0000 0001 = -1.

Incrementing a 16-bit signed int, the sequence would be

0
1
2
...
32766
32767
-32768
-32767
-32766
...
-2
-1
0

16-bit ints haven't been in common use for about ten years now, ever since the introduction of Windows 95.

These days, the default would be a 32-bit int (goes up to 2,147,483,647). For a critical application like this one, you might use a 64-bit int (up to 9,223,372,036,854,775,807). More important, you would debug it before releasing it!  And you should be required to publish the source.

56 posted on 11/05/2004 8:47:54 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: cynwoody

Election Systems and Software is owned by the Omaha World Herald.

They are braindead idiots.

I should know, I've worked 6 elections with the morons...and that's what they are, morons.

It does not surprise me that they limited the ballot count to 32k per precinct. The same idiots also double counted the entire count of Sarpy County, Nebraska, though because Nebraska is a red state, the Dems don't care.


57 posted on 11/05/2004 8:54:01 PM PST by Lightfinger
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Superb explanation -- and almost certainly the correct one. It explains the 32K limit AND the sign reversal. Nicely done!

Meanwhile, I was stumbling around in the area of 32K array limits imposed on old languages like Pascal...

58 posted on 11/05/2004 8:55:46 PM PST by TXnMA
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To: RogerWilko

It also didn't affect the final total, so what's the big deal? That's the only number that matters.


59 posted on 11/05/2004 8:57:19 PM PST by Kirkwood (I think, therefore I am Republican!)
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Comment #60 Removed by Moderator


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