South Carolina Ping List
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Shame on DeMint, trying to raise my taxes by 23%. Inez told me so :)
Posted by upchuck, trying to live up to the Swampmeister's standards for a week or so.
Posted on 10/26/2004 4:47:02 AM PDT by NotchJohnson
Hey, the Socialists want people to think that we need that tax to pay for the draft and more Halliburton contracts.
Neal is depressing me - he keeps predicting a Kerry win...
His full-color (mailout) ads claim that his Repub. opponent wants to tax everything Texans buy --but he doesn't mention anywhere that this is a proposal to eliminate the national income tax! (Texas has no state income tax...)
Da*n Dims flat-out lie -- and think everyone is too stupid to catch them at it! :-(
Thanks for posting this! Since I have seen this addressed nowhere in the news, you saved me from having to post one of those dreaded vanities myself...
JimRob: A significant number of the "Vanities" posted lately have been, in reality, genuine un-published news items. True, there are too many actual "Vanities" -- but, is there some way we FReepers could post unpublished or strictly local news items... without calling them "Vanity"? (If nothing else, could we label them "[UPN]" or something...?)
I pray you're right - the thought had crossed my mind, but the thought of Kerry in the White House scares and disgusts me to the point that I can't discount any bad news. Will be most relieved when Nov 3 rolls around and Bush is the winner. Of course the law suits will p*** me off and hopefully they will also outrage the rest of the country...
Fair tax ping.
Can one of you better explain the process of eliminating the income tax. Is it, as Neal claims, calling for a repeal of the 16th? I thought that any constitutional amendment could not be linked to other legislation.
The only legitimate argument against HR25 that I see is the risk of being taxed by both systems. I know this is considered a replacement tax, but without the repeal of the 16th the risk still exists......
I may be wrong, but I believe that a piece of legislation, such as H.B. 25, could be contingent upon a constitutional amendment, rather than the amendment being linked to the legislation.
Good point. I'm sure that the experts will clarify it for us, but I think your point sounds very valid. I expect to see a lot of discussion regarding this question when the ping list is woken up.
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John Linder in the House & Saxby Chambliss Senate, offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and payroll taxes outright, and provide a IRS free replacement in the form of a retail sales tax:
H.R.25, S.1493
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.Refer for additional information: http://www.fairtax.org & http://www.salestax.org
A very cogent article.
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Shame on DeMint, trying to raise my taxes by 23%. Inez told me so :)
Posted by upchuck, trying to live up to the Swampmeister's standards for a week or so.
"Can one of you better explain the process of eliminating the income tax. Is it, as Neal claims, calling for a repeal of the 16th? I thought that any constitutional amendment could not be linked to other legislation."
Correct. The process of ratifying or repealing a constitutional amendment follows an entirely different procedure than that of passing federal legislation. For example, ratifying/repealing a constitutional amendment does not require the president's signature, while it does require a 2/3 vote in both houses of congress and passage by 3/4 of the states. I believe that the FairTax bill does, however, include language which supports the repeal of the 16th.
As a practical matter, trying to get a constitutional amendment passed ending the income tax before a consensus is reached relative to what will replace it is politically a non-starter. It will be much more achievable once the FairTax is in place and Americans are enjoying the freedome from that system and the economy is booming. It will be obvious then to all but the most left-wing ideologues what an enormous drag on our economy our tax system has been.
Getting 3/4 of the states is never an easy matter - the founding fathers didn't WANT it to be easy. However, it will become much more practical after the FairTax is passed. In the meantime, the Internal Revenue Code will have been repealed and Americans will have enough of a basis of comparison that they won't want anything to do with an income tax again.
I may be wrong, but I believe that a piece of legislation, such as H.B. 25, could be contingent upon a constitutional amendment, rather than the amendment being linked to the legislation.
While that is undoubtedly true, such legislation has been introduced in the past to no avail. The simple fact is that in nearly 100 yrs of legislation of all kinds proposing the repeal of the 16th amendment while the income tax is still active and in place has not led to the repeal of the 16th or even the enactment of the proposal to repeal that amentmendment.
!00 years of history as regards this issue make it clear at the very least that to wait for repeal of the 16th is simply nothing more than to continue waiting and paying the income tax with all its problems.
The direction of HR25, the Fair Tax, is to remove the income tax statutes, and destroy the underlying infrastructure(i.e. abolish in the IRS & destory all tax payer records) putting in place a viable alternative tax system, the NRST in place. Then push the repeal based on a fait accompi, and obsolecence of income taxes.
For those that object that this may lead to re-intstitution of the federal income tax again giving us both the income tax and national retail sales taxes, please note that in that same hundred years not once has the US ever been successful in implementing either VATs or retail sales taxes ontop on income taxes even though there is no impedement to that other than the lack of political viability and will to do so.
There is no evidence whatso ever that a move to re-institute the income tax over an inplace NRST would be successful or tolerated by the electorate, especially considering the American experience with the overbearing presence of the IRS. The negative memory of that institution of itself acts as a barrior to re-introduction, not to mention that it would take getting past Senate filibuster of very determined conservatives to prevent such a possiblity.
I have no fear whatsoever that once the NRST is in place, the rapid enactment of Sam Johnson's amendment to the constitution
H.J.RES.61
Title: Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to abolish the Federal income tax.
Sponsor: Rep Johnson, Sam [TX-3] (introduced 6/24/2003) Cosponsors: 5
Latest Major Action: 9/4/2003 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.
or one like it will go forward and be ratified rapidly with the NRST in place an law of the land.
Sheesh, Notch! You mean I won't have that $78 Medicare premium deducted from my Social Security check anymore? I'll get Medicare free? (It's only $67 now, but it's going up to $78 next year).
Forgot to mention that the "fair tax" sounds a helluva lot more complicated than a 1040 to me!
You have to understand that Neal thinks 90% of the population are either dopes, more concerned with People magazine, on some kind of handout, or are blind with rage over W. He is right a lot of the time but not here.
Specifically where is he wrong with his article?
Remember rule one, whatever the Democrats accuse the Republicans of plotting is exactly what the Democrats will do if given the chance, or they are already trying to do it. The 16th would have to be repealed to stop the Democrats from piling on more taxes.
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