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Dr. Phil's abortion show
Dr. Phil.com ^

Posted on 10/22/2004 9:54:26 PM PDT by UnbornChild

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To: UnbornChild

That's dangerous thinking. Fortunately, the Holy Spirit continues His work of teaching His Word to the faithful, a task today's seminaries have obviously chosen to abandon.


41 posted on 10/23/2004 1:32:59 PM PDT by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: happy_happy_joy_joy
Dr. Phil's audience is women....does anyone think he's really pro-life if he wants to keep his audience happy?

Read my tagline.....

42 posted on 10/23/2004 1:41:12 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: UnbornChild

True, but that doesn't mean they are all correct. There is only ONE truth.


43 posted on 10/23/2004 1:47:51 PM PDT by Proud Legions
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To: Fenris6

"I'm making it into a protest-warrior sign for the next pro-choice march in DC"

Good job. Here's one I always thought should be said: Abortion Kills People Like You.

You're welcome to it, if you want to use it.


44 posted on 10/23/2004 2:22:28 PM PDT by jocon307 (Don't let Australia down: Re-elect President Bush!)
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To: UnbornChild; wita

"Our whole culture is based on the intrinsic worth of the human being. A human being's worth does not start when he has capability X or Y. It simply is. When the human being exists, his worth exists. That's the meaning of equality."

I agree with Unborn, and I am curious to know when wita thinks ensoulment might take place, at birth? at some point of fetal maturity? baptism? never?

However, I think the concept of ensoulment is truly a red herring. If one has religious faith then one believes we have immortal souls, but it is truly unproveable. There are many people who are atheists who do not believe we have souls. The right to life cannot be based on whether or not one has a soul, it must be based on scientific fact, otherwise it is just a religious choice.

The fact is, a new human is created at conception, and from then on, if left undisturbed will grow to full size, in almost all cases sound and fit. Abortion to save the life of the mother, acceptable; abortion for any other reason, including rape & grave fetal deformity, is the killing of an innocent, pure and simple.

It's the mother and the abortionist who need to worry about their souls.


45 posted on 10/23/2004 2:34:07 PM PDT by jocon307 (Don't let Australia down: Re-elect President Bush!)
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To: jwalsh07

"The equivalence of you losing your arm is the abortionist ripping the unborn baby's arm off and then the baby survives."

Hey, that happened once. Well, it has probably happened many times, but it happened in NYC once, and made the papers. I forget all the details of how the child managed to survive the attempt on her life, but she did. It was definately a girl, that I do remember. I think the horrid mother ended up keeping her. Maybe she even sued the doctor or something, but that part I'm really not sure about. Never heard much follow up on it, maybe others know more.


46 posted on 10/23/2004 2:37:34 PM PDT by jocon307 (Don't let Australia down: Re-elect President Bush!)
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To: UnbornChild

Abortion is NEVER OK!


47 posted on 10/23/2004 2:40:42 PM PDT by Clump
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To: UnbornChild

Dear Dr. Phil:

I understand that you plan on airing a show about advocating abortion. I am truly disappointed and disgusted that you are dedicating a show to this. If this show airs, I will never watch you again, my family and friends will hear about this and I will encourage them to do the same; and, I will contact your sponsors and discontinue my patronage.

Please don't do this. These little innocents need to be defended and protected.

Thank you.
xxxxxxxxxxxx

I encourage everyone to do the same.

Thanks for posting this.


48 posted on 10/23/2004 2:44:07 PM PDT by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: wita
Hi wita,

I read your post and I won't flame you. But I will ask you to read and consider the following:

We will focus on 4 main areas
1. The scientific facts of Life before Birth.
2. That pro-abortionists admit that abortion kills babies.
3. The unborn person as recognized by law.
4. The importance of teaching our children about life before birth.

When does life begin?
We have ABSOLUTE Irrefutable truth, Scientific proof
http://www.roevwade.org/upl39.html

* In 1981, a US Senate committee held hearings on when human life begins. Speaking on behalf of the scientific community was a group of internationally known geneticists and biologists who had the same story to tell, namely, that human life begins at conception - and they told their story with a profound absence of opposing testimony.

Dr. Micheline M. Mathews-Roth, Harvard medical School, gave confirming testimony, supported by references from over 20 embryology and other medical textbooks that human life begins at conception.

* "The Father of Modern Genetics" Dr. Jerome Lejeune told the lawmakers: "To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion ... it is plain experimental evidence. Human life begins at conception "

* Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman, Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic, added: "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."

Dr. McCarthy de Mere, medical doctor and law professor, University of Tennessee, testified: "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception."

* Dr. Landrum Shettles, sometimes called the "Father of In Vitro Fertilization" notes, "Conception confers life and makes that life one of a kind." And on the Supreme Court ruling Roe v. Wade, "To deny a truth [about when life begins] should not be made a basis for legalizing abortion."

* Professor Eugene Diamond on the Supreme Court ruling Roe v. Wade: "...either the justices were fed a backwoods biology or they were pretending ignorance about a scientific certainty."

14 weeks

At 15 weeks, this non-viable disposable blob of tissue is sucking it’s thumb

16 weeks

18 weeks

Pro-Choice Advocates Agree that Abortion Kills Humans.
http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/casey/ch3.html#S4

Many abortion advocates have agreed that abortion kills human life: A 1963 Planned Parenthood brochure says that life begins at conception: This is a direct quote "An abortion kills the life of a baby after it has begun."

Similarly, Dr. Mary Calderone, former director of Planned Parenthood has stated that "abortion is the taking of a human life"

Dr. Magda Denes who performed two years of research in an abortion facility and compiled her results told a Chicago newspaper "There wasn’t an (abortion) doctor who at one time or another in the questioning did not say ‘this is murder.’"

The unborn person as recognized by law.

One False objection the Roe court had to the unborn as a person interpretation is the lack of precedent to support it. But there was a federal court precedent for the unborn as a person reading of the Fourteenth Amendment just 3 years before Roe v. Wade, though this fact was virtually ignored by Justice Harry Blackmun and the Roe Court.

From Constitutional Persons: An Exchange on Abortion

The common law basis of our system embodied in the principle of stare decisis and the just requirements of consistency in applying the law demand a respect for precedent. To this objection I offer two replies. First, there was a federal court precedent for the unborn person reading of Fourteenth Amendment before Roe v. Wade, though this fact was virtually ignored by Justice Harry Blackmun and the Roe Court.

In Steinberg v. Brown (1970) a three-judge federal district court upheld an anti-abortion statute, stating that privacy rights "must inevitably fall in conflict with express provisions of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments that no person shall be deprived of life without due process of law."

After relating the biological facts of fetal development, the court stated that "those decisions which strike down state abortion statutes by equating contraception and abortion pay no attention to the facts of biology."

"Once new life has commenced," the court wrote, "the constitutional protections found in the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments impose upon the state the duty of safeguarding it."

Yet in commenting on the unborn person argument in Roe, Justice Blackmun wrote that "the appellee conceded on reargument that no case could be cited that holds that a fetus is a person within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment." He did so despite the fact that he had cited the case just five paragraphs earlier!

The failure of both appellees and the Court to treat this case is both unfortunate and inexplicable. Second, while our system is based upon a reasonable and healthy respect for precedent, this has never prevented the Court from revisiting and modifying precedent when the erroneous foundation and unjust results of that precedent become manifest. Such is the case with respect to abortion and the Fourteenth Amendment.

Let’s review the milestones of a person’s life before they are born:
· By the seventh day of life, the new person is planted in the uterus, home for the next nine months.
· By day 17, the blood cells and the heart are formed.
· By day 24, there is a heartbeat.
· By six weeks, the child’s nervous system is controlling their body. He or she now looks distinctly human. Throughout pregnancy the child is mostly in control--even to what day they will be born.
· By day 45, the baby has his own brain waves, which he will keep for life.
· By seven weeks, he has all the internal organs of an adult (though he weighs only one-thirtieth of an ounce and is less than one inch long.)
· By eight weeks, all external organs are formed, by nine to ten weeks, he can drink and breath amniotic fluid.
· From this age on is just a matter of time for growth. Before he is born, he can suck his thumb, cry (if he had air), and recognize his mother's voice and heartbeat.
· By the fourth month the child weighs about 5 ounces and is between 6 and 7 inches long. He has developing fingernails and eyelashes, and already has unique fingerprints that will remain the same for the rest of his life.
· At 32 weeks of gestation - two months before a baby is considered fully prepared for the world, or "at term" - a fetus is behaving almost exactly as a newborn. And it continues to do so for the next 12 weeks.
· By nine weeks, a developing fetus can hiccup and react to loud noises. By the end of the 2nd trimester it can hear.
· Just as adults do, the fetus experiences the rapid eye movement (REM) sleep of dreams.
· The fetus savors its mother's meals, first picking up the food tastes of a culture in the womb.
· Among other mental feats, the fetus can distinguish between the voice of Mom and that of a stranger, and respond to a familiar story read to it.
· Before the first trimester is over, it yawns, sucks, and swallows, as well as feels and smells. By the end of the second trimester, he or she can hear; toward the end of pregnancy, can see.

This so called “Women’s Right to Choose…to abort her baby” has as its foundation, three main points:
1. It must ignore universally acknowledged biological facts,
2. It denies federal and state laws that clearly identify the unborn as a person with rights.
3. It promotes a blatant lie that “It’s” a woman’s body” When clearly “IT” is her baby within her body.

Many people who have trouble with the abortion issue say. “Please do not quote religious or moral codes” And yet the founder of NARAL used religious and moral codes as a wedge to create dissension against religious and moral leaders by their followers in favor of abortion. He also admitted to lying about every statistic to show a false need for legalized abortion. It’s all here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1030729/posts?page=12#12

“Abortion and euthanasia are crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize. There is no obligation in conscience to obey such laws; instead there is a grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection. In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to ‘take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or vote for it.’" (The Gospel of Life, no. 73)

The single most important thing we can do as Christians is to teach our children about the sanctity of life before birth, and promote this to all of our friends and our families.

Note from a friend: I gave my 10-year-old daughter a little book filled with the most marvelous actual photos of unborn babies in all phases of pregnancy. When she started hearing about abortion, I would show her pictures of the tiniest, most perfectly formed little babies, and explain that some people didn't think these were actually little humans and it was ok to kill them. She was very disturbed and troubled by this. She said if everyone had this book, no one would ever kill their babies. And with that I MUST say that comprehensive education for school-aged children is THE MISSING KEY OF THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT .

Since the decision of Roe v. Wade, tens of millions of Christian school students could have received a Pro-Life education. This group would today constitute a huge voting block; and with them, the culture of death might have already been defeated.

We must start with being mindful that young children are naturally pro-life. Ask a young child who has a pregnant mother what is inside his mother's “tummy,” and he will likely respond that it is his baby brother or sister. It is so simple to a child.

The sad reality is that the duration of the abortion holocaust is prolonged by Christians who vote for pro-abortion candidates. This can only end with a new generation of Christians fully educated on the sanctity of Life before birth.

“The solution to ending the culture of death does not realistically lie with changing the minds of pro-abortion adults; it lies with preserving the 99+ % of children that are naturally pro-life on their first day of school.”

Roe v Wade is null and void. It is the invalid fiat ruling of 7 men. It has as much validity as the Dred Scott decision or of the Nazi courts. It is the antithesis of both the Declaration and the Constitution. Yes it’s ruling has the effect of law, just as the case in Slavery and just as in the case in Nazi Germany. If it is not overturned it will one day be understood as on of the main factors in what would dissolve our Republic.

49 posted on 10/23/2004 4:03:22 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (Birth is one day in the life of a person who is already nine months old.)
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To: hosepipe

"Dr. Phil really is a moron or he would not be a democrat.."

I understand he endorses George Bush.


50 posted on 10/23/2004 4:23:26 PM PDT by UnbornChild
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To: Proud Legions

"True, but that doesn't mean they are all correct. There is only ONE truth."

Absolutely, but the issue is how to discover the Truth. Proof-texting is not the way. That's what I am saying.


51 posted on 10/23/2004 4:27:34 PM PDT by UnbornChild
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker

"You realize that this Dr. Phil character is an Oprah invention, don't you? He's got a Ph.D. in Applied Physics from prestigious Michigan Technological University only miles from the Canadian border."

According to the Dr. Phil website:

"Dr. Phil has a B.S, M.A. and Ph.D. in clinical psychology from North Texas State University with a dual area of emphasis in clinical and behavioral medicine. He has been a board-certified and licensed clinical psychologist since 1978. "

He's not an Oprah invention. How do you suppose Oprah met Dr. Phil? When she hired him to help her court case when she was being sued by the beef industry. Dr. Phil's "day job" is running a very successful multi-million dollar business that coaches people on how to act and speak in court so that they don't lose. Dr. Phil was something long before Oprah met him. In fact, I think Oprah is a lot less flaky because of having met him.


52 posted on 10/23/2004 4:43:20 PM PDT by UnbornChild
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To: UnbornChild
This is what I wrote:

I have heard that Dr. Phil will be making and broadcasting a show wherein it will be discussed when it is appropriate for a woman to contract someone else to kill her baby (ie. have an abortion).

I can think of no situation, except for when the child is already dead, when it is appropriate.

First, over 95% of abortions in this country are done for matters other than rape, incest, health, or life of the mother.

Rape or incest is not a reason to kill a child. Why should the child receive the death penalty because of a crime that the child's father committed? Adoption is the answer.

Health or life of the mother is not a reason to kill a child. What mother would not throw herself in front of speeding truck to save the life of her child? What mother would not lay her own life down that her child might live? If a mother got sick or was dying when the child was 12 months old, would it be OK to kill the child because he or she was too much of a burden on the mother?

Health, deformity, defect, or dire situation of the unborn child is not a reason to kill him or her. Give the child a chance. If the child dies naturally within the womb, of course an abortion must occur. But killing the child just because you think he or she is unhealthy, deformed, has defects, or may not make it through a full term is wrong. Would anyone supporting waiting until a child is born and then killing him or her and if he or she is severely deformed, has serious health problems, or has a terminal medical condition? What is the difference? A child is a child no matter if he or she is tiny, living in a mother's womb, and relying upon her body for sustenance or if he or she is somewhat larger, living in the mother's house, and relying upon her for sustenance.

In all of these cases, it is simply more convenient to kill the child before he or she is born. That means that almost every single abortion is done for convenience and extremely rarely out of necessity.

My wife and I have watched Dr. Phil since his show first started - and before that on Oprah. If Dr. Phil can't be consistent in his views on responsibility and the duties of parents - especially when it comes to parents of unborn children - we will have to discontinue our viewership permanently. I certainly would not want to expose my family to someone who condones the murder of children simply for matters of convenience.

Of course, I hate Oprah but my wife watches her from time to time and that is where I first saw Dr. Phil. No, I don't watch either show except for when I can't escape it because my wife is watching. She even makes me TiVo Dr. Phil.
53 posted on 10/23/2004 5:01:23 PM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: wita

It is easy to tell that you have never been pregnant. From the minute I found out I was pregnant, (twice) I knew that I was carrying life, our little baby. Sadly, both of our unborn babies died.

We still mourn their deaths. Not you, or anyone else can convince my husband and I that those were not babies.


54 posted on 10/23/2004 5:39:58 PM PDT by GWfan
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To: UnbornChild

All Dr. Phil does is state the obvious. I have only seen his show a few times, but it seems like he has some of the most stupid people on his show.

One guy was living at his sister's house with his 4 kids and his wife. He had no job, but he said he needed 3 grand to buy a laptop. I kept yelling at the TV, "Go out and get a job, you moron!" Dr. Phil was going to get him help to write a resume and get him some leads. I would never hire a person that stupid. Dr. Phil should have sent him to a shrink, the guy needed a mental eval.


55 posted on 10/23/2004 5:46:36 PM PDT by GWfan
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To: GWfan

It may all seem obvious to you, but apparently it isn't to millions of people, and he's doing a great service to people by making them responsible for their actions and what they contribute to their relationships.

I actually don't find most of his guests very dumb. I've watched many a talk-show in my lifetime, and I think Dr. Phil's guests are about the most normal and represent a broader spectrum of mainstream society than just about any other show I've seen.


56 posted on 10/23/2004 6:28:07 PM PDT by UnbornChild
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To: UnbornChild

Oh, come on. It's all common sense. And people are still responsible for their actions whether Dr. Phil tells them they are or not.

At any rate, I think that abortion is wrong. So we can agree on that point.


57 posted on 10/23/2004 6:41:20 PM PDT by GWfan
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To: GWfan

"Oh, come on. It's all common sense. And people are still responsible for their actions whether Dr. Phil tells them they are or not. "

They are, but not all people realize that. It's common sense if you already know it. Also, common sense might be obvious, but there's a lot of things that Dr. Phil says that isn't obvious.


58 posted on 10/23/2004 6:46:18 PM PDT by UnbornChild
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To: UnbornChild
[ ME- "Dr. Phil really is a moron or he would not be a democrat.."
[ You- I understand he endorses George Bush. ]

Endorsing G. Bush does inoculate you from being a moron.. are YOU a democrat ?

59 posted on 10/23/2004 8:34:39 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: UnbornChild; 2nd amendment mama; A2J; Agitate; Alouette; Annie03; aposiopetic; Askel5; attagirl; ...

ProLife Ping!

If anyone wants on or off my ProLife Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.

60 posted on 10/23/2004 8:50:02 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Ten days left to be a Bush goon! Freepmail me to get on your state's Kerrytrack list today!)
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