Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Replace Social Security payroll tax with national sales tax
Fort Wayne Journal-Gazette ^ | Oct. 20th, 2004 | Laurence J. Kotlikoff

Posted on 10/21/2004 1:45:31 AM PDT by Remember_Salamis

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-91 next last

1 posted on 10/21/2004 1:45:31 AM PDT by Remember_Salamis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ancient_geezer

FairTax-related bump!

It's interesting that at the bottom of the page it states that he wrote this for AFFT. So this appears to me that AFFT is floating the idea of a partial NRST.

Plan Bs are always a good thing, A_G.


2 posted on 10/21/2004 1:47:31 AM PDT by Remember_Salamis (Freedom is Not Free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis

In political tactics; when you think about, if Bush changed S.S. so it was funded by a sales tax, he would be able push through to have illegal immigrants get S.S. more easily because they would be paying their share when they bought something and the issue would not cause anywhere near the poltical firestorm that it currently causes now.


3 posted on 10/21/2004 2:01:05 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis

NO. This is simply a scam to continue to tax the heck out of the largest and highest tax paying group in the country...the Boomers. WE've paid enough. LEt's take it out of the pensions of the politicians who have stolen all those trillions we've paid in.


4 posted on 10/21/2004 2:01:07 AM PDT by ETERNAL WARMING (He is faithful!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Paul C. Jesup
In political tactics; when you think about, if Bush changed S.S. so it was funded by a sales tax, he would be able push through to have illegal immigrants get S.S. more easily because they would be paying their share when they bought something and the issue would not cause anywhere near the poltical firestorm that it currently causes now.

ALL law abiding taxpayers should LOVE an NRST. Under an NRST, paying your fair share is unavoidable - unless you live like a hermit. Illegal income, cash businesses, illegal immigrants, etc., would all pay their freight.

5 posted on 10/21/2004 2:40:26 AM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite, it's almost worth defending.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis

Not a chance! No NST until the 16th amendment is repealed. No way, no how!


6 posted on 10/21/2004 4:08:01 AM PDT by jpw01 (Freep the world!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis
"The Social Security Administration handles all paper work, investing and pension conversions. Wall Street plays no role and collects no fees."

And HERE is the problem with it. NO part of the federal bureaucracy is eliminated. Instead of this continuing government boondoggle, invest the money in REAL IRA's, and get the government out of it.

7 posted on 10/21/2004 4:21:06 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jpw01

Not a chance! No NST until the 16th amendment is repealed. No way, no how!

Damn good point!!! The Dems will go into a spending frenzy during transition and then when we try to stop the SS tax they will be screaming, "Who's going to pay for the tax cut?!!!"


8 posted on 10/21/2004 5:39:34 AM PDT by American Vet Repairman (A liberal taking a tax deduction is the essence of hipocrisy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis

Teach folks how to save for their own retirement properly and be done with social security completely.

less than $100 a month through your working lifetime invested will make you a millionaire.


9 posted on 10/21/2004 5:40:47 AM PDT by HamiltonJay ("You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis

If I'm reading him right then the money that I'm currently paying in Social Security would go into a savings acount to be managed and invested outside of the government. OK, I don't have a problem with that. But in addition I have to pay a new sales tax to fund existing Social Security recipients, probably along the lines as the same percentage as my current Social Security. So that means my Social Security costs double. I'm supposed to sign on for a massive tax increase. How reasonable is that?


10 posted on 10/21/2004 5:50:58 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis

It's interesting that at the bottom of the page it states that he wrote this for AFFT. So this appears to me that AFFT is floating the idea of a partial NRST.

Then it would be good to ask them. I'll be back on that.

Plan Bs are always a good thing, A_G.

Not when they fail to serve the primary purpose. To eliminate the income tax.

11 posted on 10/21/2004 7:29:17 AM PDT by ancient_geezer (Equality, the French disease: Everyone is equal beneath the guillotine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis

So the idea is to have a National Sales Tax in addition to the National Income Tax.


12 posted on 10/21/2004 7:45:22 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis
What's the rate?

Just as many of us predicted. Once a sales tax is introduced, we'll have both and the fairtax clowns will cheer it them on.

13 posted on 10/21/2004 7:51:59 AM PDT by lewislynn (Why do the same people who think "free trade" is the answer also want less foreign oil dependence?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lewislynn; Your Nightmare
Just as many of us predicted. Once a sales tax is introduced, we'll have both and the fairtax clowns will cheer it them on.

Yep, fools and their money are soon parted.

14 posted on 10/21/2004 8:33:25 AM PDT by balrog666 (Why settle for the lesser evil? Cthulhu for President.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis
This fits in with the Kotlikoff dream.

Statement of Laurence J. Kotlikoff,
Professor of Economics, Boston University, and
Research Associate, National Bureau of Economic Research

Testimony Before the House Committee on Ways and Means

Hearing on Fundamental Tax Reform

April 11, 2000

Chairman Archer and other distinguished members of the Committee on Ways and Means:

I'm honored by this opportunity to discuss with you the nation's need for tax reform and the role that consumption taxation, particularly a federal retail sales tax, could play in enhancing the economy's economic performance and improving its distribution of resources.

Our nation's economy has been performing remarkably well in recent years, but our economic success is no reason to be complacent about a tax system that is extraordinarily complex and highly distortionary and that plays a critical role in an overall fiscal system that is likely to visit enormous burdens on our children and grandchildren.

The complexity of the tax code doesn't just drive taxpayers crazy. It also costs them a significant amount of time - time that could be spent working or time that could be spent enjoying life. Having just spent three days doing my taxes, I have a refreshed sense of the substantial costs to the man in the street and the nation as a whole of complying with the federal income tax code.

The distortions of our tax system also diminish the nation's well being, but in ways that are less transparent. Today, almost all American households are in combined federal, state, and local marginal income tax brackets of roughly 50 percent. Because governments are collectively confiscating half of every dollar most workers earn, most workers work many fewer hours than they would were their tax payments independent of their labor earnings. And since the government is confiscating half of every dollar of income most savers earn on their non tax-favored retirement accounts, many Americans choose to spend today rather than save for tomorrow.

Tax Reform's Importance for Fiscal Sustainability and Generational Equity

Eliminating complexity and distortions would be cause enough for reforming the federal income tax, but there is a much more pressing reason: notwithstanding recent wishful projections about future government surpluses, our fiscal house is not in order. Indeed, getting it in order would require not cutting federal income taxes, as some in this chamber advocate, but immediately and permanently raising them by over 25 percent. That assessment comes not from academia, but from the Congressional Budget Office and the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. A joint CBO-Cleveland Fed generational accounting study, to be published next month in the American Economic Review, shows that such a tax hike is needed to achieve generational balance - a situation in which our children and grandchildren will face tax rates that are no higher than those we face.

The 25 percent or greater requisite tax hike is derived under the assumption that growth in federal purchases of goods and services keeps pace with growth in the overall economy. This responsible assumption can be contrasted with the irresponsible one underlying the projection of very large surpluses over the next few decades. The irresponsible projection, whose surpluses are routinely cited by advocates of tax cuts and spending hikes, assumes that, as a share of GDP, federal spending will decline by 20 percent by the end of this decade and by 30 percent by roughly 2040.....

Go to THOMAS to read the rest.

Having just spent three days doing my taxes, I have a refreshed sense of the substantial costs to the man in the street and the nation as a whole of complying with the federal income tax code

Funny thing is, even with this latest payroll tax to sales tax scam he'd still have to fill out those income tax forms.

15 posted on 10/21/2004 8:38:25 AM PDT by lewislynn (Why do the same people who think "free trade" is the answer also want less foreign oil dependence?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Remember_Salamis

No thanks. If AFFT is behind this, they need to seriously re-think it. The whole point of the NRST is to eliminate the income tax -- having a national sales tax plus the income tax simultaneously will simply ensure that we're saddled with both permanently.


16 posted on 10/21/2004 8:38:39 AM PDT by kevkrom (Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it rocks absolutely, too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lewislynn
Once a sales tax is introduced, we'll have both and the fairtax clowns will cheer them on.

Wrong again, lewis (why am I not surprised). Looks like the majority of FairTax supporters are against this idea.

But when has a fact ever stopped you?

17 posted on 10/21/2004 8:40:10 AM PDT by kevkrom (Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it rocks absolutely, too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: kevkrom
Wrong as usual kevkrom.
Laurence J. Kotlikoff is chairman of the Department of Economics at Boston University. He wrote this on behalf of the non-profit organization Americans for Fair Taxation to distribute to newspapers.

You're just running from this article like scalded dogs because it exposes what many of us already know as your real agenda.

18 posted on 10/21/2004 8:51:58 AM PDT by lewislynn (Why do the same people who think "free trade" is the answer also want less foreign oil dependence?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: lewislynn
Nice try to shift the topic... ancient_geezer and myself have already come out completely against this idea. As far as I know, Remeber_Salamis is the only supporter of this concept who posts to the Tax Reform threads. Your desire to trash NRST proponents regardless of what the truth is lead you to make a false statement about the rest of the pro-NRST crowd.
19 posted on 10/21/2004 8:57:48 AM PDT by kevkrom (Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it rocks absolutely, too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: kevkrom
A typical response from fairtax clowns is when posting actual quotes you don't like is called changing the subject.

ancient_geezer and myself have already come out completely against this idea

Don't cry to me about it.

You two are some of the biggest AFFT enablers here. If you've been stabbed in the back by frauds you thought were friends (it's not like you haven't been warned) you're crying to the wrong person.

20 posted on 10/21/2004 9:10:36 AM PDT by lewislynn (Why do the same people who think "free trade" is the answer also want less foreign oil dependence?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-91 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson