Eyewitness Reports from Beslan

Novaya Gazeta ^ | October 7th, 2004 | Elena MILASHINA

[jb6]

Or maybe dads, grandads, brothers and uncles who decided they were going to 'help' in what ever manner they could. A large portion of the population is relatively well armed, and from the rumbling coming from the kremlin, a much large percentage might soon be very well armed.

[jb6]

No, why announce, use the high tech mode, just like the Munich terror bombings at the Olympics, where the benevolent media, populated by the most humble and carrying people (I'll barf latter for saying this) broadcast live every police action as they tried to rescue the hostages. Yup, our brave and intelligent lefties (and some of these idjits masquerade as Republicans) at work.

[struwwelpeter]

Here's another Novaya Gazeta article from Beslan for you.

[Askel5]

Do you all go to the bathroom together too?

I'll have to look at the post again. I believe I was making a comparison to incinerating folks at Waco where the potential for government abuse is concerned ... being machine-gunned to death likely preferable to being severed piecemeal by a tank or having your body twist like a pretzel because -- being a just a little kid and all -- there isn't a gas mask on the planet that would have made the six or so hours of CS gas tolerable.

[GarySpFc]

At Waco there was an accelerant used within the buildings by the Branch Davidians.

[Askel5]

Oh bullshit.

If they'd wanted to kill themselves in some fierty holocaust, I doubt very seriously the CIA's bugs would have picked up evidence of their last-ditch efforts to pull together "anti-tank" scale defenses.

(Things had been ramped up a bit in the 51 days the United States of America had sought to drive them round the bend with 24-hour, non-stop psy-ops assault on top of everything else.)

Evidence is quite clear that the United States of America turned the place into a pot-belly stove suitable for maximum destruction by fire. The onus is on us ... each of us ... for the lives taken that day by the United States of America.

[GarySpFc]

Evidence is quite clear that the United States of America turned the place into a pot-belly stove suitable for maximum destruction by fire. The onus is on us ... each of us ... for the lives taken that day by the United States of America.

Oh nonsense! Jack Cashill (TWA Flight 800) is a close friend of mine, and he is a friend of the producer and director of "Waco, Rules of Engagement." Jack had them premier the video in Mission, Kansas and I was invited by Jack to attend.
I sat through the video without commenting even though I saw several flaws:
Firstly, they claimed the flashes at the back of the compound viewed from a high altitude were gunfire. There is no way a half trained soldier is going to fire from a postion without cover.
Secondly, there was an armored vehicle in back of the compound, and any soldier would have taken cover behind that vehicle.
Thirdly, prior to viewing the video I knew the producers claimed Special Forces were used in the operation. Every professional soldier knows it is against the law to partake in any operation on American soil against Americans. Early that day I phoned Ft. Bragg and asked a high up source if there was any truth to their claim. I was assured there was not, and at a later date I confirmed the veracity of that through another source. There were a couple of SF observors at the site, but they in no way participated in any action.
Fourthly, during the question and answer session I confronted the producer regarding these claims. He said, "Well they could have been CIA." When I pointed out to him that it was against the law for the CIA to operate within the US he replied, "Then it had to be British SAS." I laughed and sat down. Almost everyone in the room got a big laugh at his expense. After I sat down a man in front turned and whispered, "I worked 8 years for the CIA, and they do not operate that way."
I know very well that I am not going to change your mind. If you want to live in a conspiracy world then have at it.

[Askel5]

Were the gaping holes in the structure (beyond those made to insert the CS gas which, according to the FBI's own spokesman, was supposed to torture the children sufficient to kickstart the "parental instinct) created by tank so that whatever "accelerant" they knew the Davidians were using to make anti-tank weapons would incinerate the place even faster?

I realize a few off-the-cuff comments from the sort of folks intensely interested in having a presence at previews mean as much to you as the rules of engagement which are to upheld always by American soldiers.

I doubt I can change your mind either but -- lacking the Insider comments or the faith that those in the service of our government necessarily always follow the rules of engagement or even the spirit of Geneva -- I'd just as soon stick to the facts as we know them and have your own opinions thereof.

[GarySpFc]

The Davidians were using the accelerant to commit suicide, and not as an antitank weapon. Korish made that decision, and a couple of the leaders carried out his order.

I can tell you for a fact Special Forces would not under any circumstances fire on American civilians. NEVER! They are very well aware they would be breaking the law, and would without doubt turn on their officers before doing so. However, the officers would never issue a command. Additionally, there were only two SF officers on the scene and no other army personal.

[struwwelpeter]

Knock it off!

I turn my back for a minute, and what happens? ;-)

Let's not drag Waco or the UN into this. Novaya Gazeta's 'flame-thrower' thesis has been pretty much debunked, even with a close reading of the article. NG's own military analyst, and his source, state clearly that the 'Bumblebee' would have been used to lay down a smoke-screen, and if this weapon were been used with the orginal warheads, no one would have gotten out alive.

No one who has ever been in the service (except for John Kerry) could believe that American servicemen would purposely try to kill civilians. Waco, like Beslan, was just a big, screwed pooch.

No more stimulating articles for any of you, I'm back to translating 'feel good' stuff.

"Hold hands, friends, so that you don't fall alone!"

[GarySpFc]

No one who has ever been in the service (except for John Kerry) could believe that American servicemen would purposely try to kill civilians. Waco, like Beslan, was just a big, screwed pooch.

We agree. Even is successful military operations $hit happens. Indeed, I have never seen one where everything went exactly as planned.

[Askel5]

Sorry ... reading backwards.

Take some consoliation in the fact I've moved to relating my comments at present re Ruby Ridge, Waco, OKC and the World Trade Center to the warnings, investigation and trials of the matters.


====== No one who has ever been in the service (except for John Kerry) could believe that American servicemen would purposely try to kill civilians.


It's a fact we did so in Serbia. Just following orders, I'm sure.

Back when my Dad, the Colonel, would counsel me on the back patio about how there were probably Russian girls like myself talking to their Dads about whether or not Americans were evil as a matter of course ... he also tempered a lot of my jingoism by pointing out that all sorts of unfortunate things happen in war and being on the "winning" or even the moral side doesn't provide immunity from what are (or were then, anyway) decidedly aberrant instances.

That doesn't change the Fact, Struwwelpeter, that American servicemen most certainly were responsible for the deaths of countless White Russians and Poles, in particular. I don't think you need put a gun to person's head and pull the trigger to know for sure you've killed them when "repatriating" them to the Soviet Union or finishing off the Population Redistribution of Eastern Europe by force does the trick.

I will be happy to post plenty from Keunnelt-Ledhinn in case you are at all unfamiliar with the sorts of inexplicable actions on the part of Americans to which I'm alluding.

I also would include among the Unclean Hands of the military those individuals like Colonel Murray Sanders who handled the purposeful "paperclipping" of Japanese into this nation after the war. Japanese like Ishii, Kitano and Naito who -- having spent the war years using Chinese prisoners as "logs" they could freeze and thaw and vivisect alive -- became esteemed members of our NIH (read: Death) and even founded multi-million dollar operations such as Green Cross out in California.

Not quite as hip to the deathist Zeitgeist our bluebloods and pre-war Germany and Austria shared, they did not enjoy the plum strategic and political appointments of the Germans "paperclipped" in from Mengele's shop and elsewhere. They, unlike the Germans, did not end up overseeing the content and dissemination of our biology texts and such. But these human viruses and time bombs indeed were injected into this nation thanks to "servicemen" of a sort who allegedly were all about eradicating exactly that abject evil in which these men in particular participated.

Doesn't add up, Struwwelpeter. You know I'm an Army brat and I tend to err (as do most around here) on loyalty to and seeing the bright side of a military which allegedly was decimated down to politicos (among the Elite of the hierarchy) and dregs (among the rank and file) during the Clinton years.

Not that it's the Clinton years which bother me quite as much as the 1989 teaming up of the KGB with our military and our agencies before the dust of the wall even settled. I don't know about you, but I myself can't fathom enough dust in the eyes such that I'd see KGB and GRU as "policemen ... guys with a mission, just like ours."

Not even now that they sport the deliciously Orwellian monikor of "Security Services" (which we're copping as we maintain a presence in the places like Haiti*, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq which we've liberated but have yet to actually "democratize").


*(I'm assuming we still maintain some control over Haiti's "Security Services" even though we've kindly invited our Most Favored Friends, the Chinese Communists, back over to Latin American to establish a Policeman presence there since all this "democratization" is stretching us kinda thin. Little wonder Uncle Fidel feels comfortable stepping down.)

[struwwelpeter]

that they sport the deliciously Orwellian monikor of "Security Services"

Hey, no fair making fun of my old alma mater!

I simply give up. I'm going back to translating pop music lyrics.