Posted on 09/30/2004 4:35:23 PM PDT by rmlew
"Free" trade bump!
In the end we all will be dead.
An English corporate raider by the name of Goldsmith, who was the basis of the robber-baron turned good-guy in the movie "Wall Street," suggested many years ago that free trade should exist between similiar economies so that everyone in the First World is not totally undermined by cheap Third World labor. Free trade, or trade with minimal tariffs, between Japan, Australia, USA, Canada, Europe, et.al. would definately create enough competition to keep a lid on inflation and be condusive to middle class stability. In addition to strengthing our economies, it will definately strengthen our values!!
"Protectionism" is a loaded word whose use should be properly challenged. For the life of me I don't know why GM and Ford can't compete against Honda and Toyota. But I do know that I can't compete against cheap Chinese labor and that I'm not interested in lowering my standard of living until we reach an equilibrium with the new Chinese and Indian middle classes!
Ultimately we have to ultimately decide whether we are a nation or a market.
An English corporate raider by the name of Goldsmith, who was the basis of the robber-baron turned good-guy in the movie "Wall Street," suggested many years ago that free trade should exist between similiar economies so that everyone in the First World is not totally undermined by cheap Third World labor. Free trade, or trade with minimal tariffs, between Japan, Australia, USA, Canada, Europe, et.al. would definately create enough competition to keep a lid on inflation and be condusive to middle class stability. In addition to strengthing our economies, it will definately strengthen our values!!
"Protectionism" is a loaded word whose use should be properly challenged. For the life of me I don't know why GM and Ford can't compete against Honda and Toyota. But I do know that I can't compete against cheap Chinese labor and that I'm not interested in lowering my standard of living until we reach an equilibrium with the new Chinese and Indian middle classes!
Ultimately we have to ultimately decide whether we are a nation or a market.
The Republican party needs to move away from free trade. If Bush loses, it will be caused by the damage done to most Americans by free trade. The average American does not benefit from free trade as it is currently practiced.
An example of the way trade should be done is this: A developing foreign country needs American lumber to build housing units. The United States agrees under one condition--the lumber is processed in American sawmills, packaged by American firms, shipped in American freighters. This is trade that benefits both parties. But free traders would ship raw logs on a foreign-owned ship, processed by foreign workers through outsourcing so that the only beneficiaries are corporate executives and foreigners.
When Bush ran for President in 2000, he promised "Prosperity With A Purpose." But if free traders and outsourcing C.E.O.'s have their way, most Americans will have neither.
I think the gentleman underestimates the DLC's Third Way (or whatever they call it today) New Democrats. They did not act stupidly. They and the conservative "free traders" are fast partners. No stranger than Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan partnering in opposition. The Third Way Democrats and "free trade" conservatives are indeed a political duopoly just as they are on "migrant labor" (ILLEGAL immigrants). I think it's called globalization.
What's at stake is the control of the world (Third Way Democrats and their foreign comrades) and a customer base of six billion middle-class spendin' fools -- or so the useful idiots (conservative "free traders") have been led to believe is theirs.
America’s experiment with free trade, which has outlived its Cold War purpose of bribing foreign nations to not go communist, will finally be over.
How ironic. If that was the purpose the purpose now is a Marxist revolution from the top down, IMO. The useful idiots provide the wealth for all via the market economy (and no small amount of redistribution of wealth through technology transfers and jobs) then that pesky dialectical materialism kicks in -- from the top this time.
Meanwhile the Third Way Democrats have alrady promised Nader's people and the anti-WTO radicals that there will be social justice, economic justice, racial justice, and environmental justice in the end. Nader will join the Third Way, if he's not already a member.
In fact, the WTO just might soon be changed to stop being neutral about "human rights" and address those issues as they regulate trade. Nader, et al. will be happy.
Something you may find of interest ping!
That's right. I am looking forward to the day when all those millions of unemployed factory workers become nurses so they can take care of me when I am in the hospital. Do you really see the people standing in the unemployment line, who have been working an assembly lines their whole lives, as a viable choice to be hanging IV's, passing out medications, changing bandages and being able to make life sustaining choices for patients?
I have great respect for my fellow Americans but I also know that few of them are qualified for the health care field.
You forgot "abolishing the IRS."
That's icing on the cake.
Hamilton was a prime jackass, IMO.
AG, you might want to bounce the NRST off of this line of thought.
Interesting, and I think he's right on the eventual outcome, barring some gigantic increase in sales which will drive similar increases in production hiring.
There's an alternative theory now being pushed by a manufacturing-trade group out of Chicago, who is stating that demand for US-made goods will snap back in the next few years. They cite shipping costs, delivery-times, and quality issues as well as available labor supply here.
Yeah but in the specific instance of copper, America's largest mining-firm is hiring like crazy to increase domestic production of copper.
You can get a copper-chart to see why; the stuff's about doubled in the last 4 years.
Employment of illegal aliens is a form of slavery - because they are workers with no vote, so they cannot vote to change the rules of their employment. But the fact that they are still counted in the census gives the employers in their area of residence disproportionate political power - since his vote actually represents more people than himself, but who are not able to vote, and he votes for those who will perpetuate the system.
Other than the involuntary nature of slavery, the conditions are identical.
I once raised the topic of illegal immigration with my local Republican Central Committee. One of the members was a farm owner who immediately asked me if I wanted to pay a much higher price for lettuce, and then pointed out that the best thing about employing illegals was that they could not vote.
At that point, I decided that these people weren't Republicans, a party started on the concept of citizen Free Labor, but rather Southern Democrats without the nationalism. A rather squalid mix, if you ask me.
I agree. I see the same argument with those who claim some right to low cost technology. $1000 for a PC is too much, so we send the parts suppliers to China and get a $600 PC. Then, $600 is too much, so we send seminconductor fabrication to China to get a $500 PC. Then, $500 is too much, so the US engineers must be eliminated in favor of $30K chinese ones to get a $400 PC. What's next? Would we want Chinese prison labor to work at the seminconductor fabs for free, so we can have a $200 PC?
And what I love is - what businesses are we trying to support domestically with these lower costs? As in the example of mexican illegals - how much economic benefit is a restaurant providing that we should look aside at illegal immigration, which brings other costs to the society? does someone needing a $300 PC to run a small business selling crap on EBAY justify ditching the US technology industry?
>And as a small businessman, I will gladly outsource tech work
>if it helps keep me afloat.
You do realize that as a small businessman, the only reason you are afloat is that the business you happen to be doing has not yet been exposed to the crushing weight of some offshore competitor who can hire workers for $0.25 an hour, don't you?
Or are you one of those arrogant franchise owners who has deluded themselves into believing that they are something other than an outsourced middle manager for a MNC...
>Ultimately we have to ultimately decide whether we are a
>nation or a market.
You deserve a gold medal in the intellectual olympics for this quote.
Twenty years ago, we were undisputably the former. Today, under the pressure of outsourcing, illegal immigration, and a two party system that ignores the best interests of the majority of its citizens, we are increasingly the latter.
Amen!
I do my work because it's profitable. When it isn't, I'll need to find another line of work, not count on the government to help me at someone else's expense.
Americans have been doing this for centuries.
I believe you are well meaning but historically ignorant.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.