Go ahead, prove that the SwiftVet's allegations have been "debunked" or are "unsubstantiated."

BeldarBlog ^ | September 25, 2004 | WILLIAM J. DYER

[ArmyBratCutie]

every ranting head for the DNP makes SURE to get in "and all their claims have been debunked" or "who have been proven to be lies" or "proven to be liars"....they ALWAYS say that and no one calls them on it!!

[SandRat]

Bottom line here is that since the Swifties all made sworn statements they are on the line for perjury if their statements are PROVEN false and O'Neill has said from the start to the Kerry campaign if what's in here is false take him and the other 260 Swifties to court. So far this hasn't been done and IMHO it will never happen because the DNC knows that what would come out in discovery would be far worse than what's even in the book and adds.

[JLS]

Thank you for this post. As I have read commentators reading from the recent Dim talking points that the Swifties had been debunked, I wondered if there was even ONE point that they had been debunked on?

I can think of three they have been shown right about:

1. Kerry's campaign has backed off the first purple heart.

2. Kerry's campaign has admitted that if he was getting his brain seared on that Christmas eve, it was not in Cambodia.

3. Kerry's campaign has admitted his boat ran after the mine exploded and later came back.

But I could not think of a single point they had been debunked on?

[SandRat]

Sure would like it if when one of the DENC haters says that the media interviewer says; "In what court? When?"

That would definitely be a "pass the Popcorn bowl, please" moment.

[Pan_Yan]

I think you are fairly safe from finding someone who can meet your criteria. But that still leaves two problems:

1. The Democrats will minimize the truth by saying that the evil Repulicans are being mean and trying to avoid the real issues (not to mention that the MSM will keep using the same lie tactics that prompted your post).

2. The only people who are voting for Kerry work for him or want to. It's George Bush Supporters against George Bush Haters and they don't care how awful their cantidate is. As a matter of fact the special interest groups backing Kerry are probably happier the weaker he is.

[golfboy]

You should go over and post this at the Dim Underground!
I'd love to see the mass hysteria!

[lancer]

I heard Jerry Corsi on WBAL (1090AM, Baltimore) on Friday. A caller asked him why the Swift Boat Vets had not been sued by Kerry for libel. Corsi answered that the best defense against libel is the truth.

He added that the Swift Boat Vets would welcome any libel suit from anyone because ALL THE CHALLENGES TO DATE HAVE BEEN BASELESS. NOT ONE OF THE STATEMENTS BY THE SWIFT BOAT VETS HAS BEEN "DEBUNKED" IN SPITE OF WHAT THE DSM (DOWN STREAM MEDIA) SAYS.

[viaveritasvita]

I've been putting the following on each and every email I send out (now and until election day)......


Memo to John SKerry: Sign the document (Form 180) that will release your military records, like Pres. Bush did, if you have nothing to hide and refute the Swifties with evidence!!


My boss (please say hello to him 'cuz he is starting to read FR and I'd like him to see how it works) would like to see the following cartoon:

The Johns running out of the bank, smoking Thompson in one hand, big overflowing bag of $$$ in the other. There's a crowd of citizens, Swifties and coppers. The caption reads: "No! Of course, we didn't rob the bank. Dubya did it!"

ROFLOL!


Today I saw a bumper sticker in NC: "Regime change in 2004." Can you believe that??? I tried to chase the vehicle down (a biga$$ SUV, BTW!!) to tell them they had no idea of the meaning of regime!! Stunning, really. Just stunning!

God please help us!

<><

[sweetliberty]

Where have you been, lady?

[ArmyBratCutie]

I KNOW!!....I scream it at them all the time to ask them, but no one hears me :) hehe

[Cboldt]

* bump *

The SBVfT is an outstanding example of what is wrong with the media. Develop conclusions first, reports facts that fit the conclusion. Hope the public doesn't check out the reporter.

That won't work for everybody, and fewer and fewer people trust the media.

[rockrr]

Another reasonable ground rule would be to exclude submission of Navy documentation to corroborate skerry's claims that were fabricated by.....

Ghengis skerry himself!

[Cboldt]

Other allegations require an exercise of subjective judgment. For example, was Kerry's pursuit and dispatching of a single VC soldier sufficiently valorous to merit his Silver Star?

I disagree with this. So does Mr. Elliott, who handled Mr. Kerry's Silver Star recommendation letter. The Silver Star Award is not about the single VC. It is about the conditions on the beach before and during Kerry turning his swift boat toward the beach. Were there numerically superior enemy? Was there intense enemy fire?

One of the supposed debunkers, Mr. Rood, does not support Kerry's or the official record's contention in this regard. Neither does Brinkley's book. And that is why Mr. Elliott's sworn affidavit says what it does about why he (Mr. Elliott) would not have passed the recommendation letter along, if he had the facts as presented by Brinkley.

[marineguy]

John O'Neill asked to be sued by John Kerry numerous times. If the Swift Boat men have any reservations about the veracity of their claims he wouldn't be making that sort of invitation.

[SandRat]

yeah they just sound like an out of tune outboard motor on a bass boat; Butt, Butt, but, Butt Butt, but........

[SandRat]

Oh he's confident and so are those who support him. I know in my military heart that Ketchup Boy is soiling his shorts because he knows everything in the Swifties charges is true and cannot be refuted in a court of law; only made worse in their impact on him if done in court.

[andyandval]

David Broder says "the largely unsubstantiated" SBVFT. How can these a holes keep this up?

[speekinout]

It is about the conditions on the beach before and during Kerry turning his swift boat toward the beach. Were there numerically superior enemy? Was there intense enemy fire?

Those are good questions. If there had been numerically superior enemy and intense fire, it would have been a supremely bad decision to beach the boat. In those conditions, almost surely at least some of his men would have been injured or killed, and with the boat beached, they would have had no way to escape.

Beaching the boat under any but the safest of conditions would have been totally irresponsible.

[Cboldt]

Those are good questions. If there had been numerically superior enemy and intense fire, it would have been a supremely bad decision to beach the boat.

That's why Eliott said "I don't whether to commend you or court martial you" when Kerry put in the after action report. I assume Kerry also suggested the preparation of a letter recommending a Silver Star, if he didn't prepare a draft himself.

I noticed my previous post was inartful in expressing that the official record did not support the award. Obviously, parts of the official record DO support the award, otherwise it would not have been made. At least one after action report, the letter recommending the award, and the award itself are all parts of the official record, and they tell the tale from Kerry's point of view.

I'd have to revisit my notes, but think that other after action reports are silent on the presence of superior enemy forces at the time of beaching, or are ambiguous (there was more than one beaching occurrence and the entire incident is fairly complex).

But what triggered Elliot's specific complaint was Brinkley's biography of Kerry. The version of events in that book does not resemble the version of events on Kerry's Silver Star citation. And the "gotcha" has nothing to do with the age, condition or clothing of the single fleeing Viet Cong. Hence, I suppose, the diversion by the press into exactly that area of discussion -it is irrelevant, as Elliott said in his sworn affidavits.