Posted on 09/19/2004 10:45:45 AM PDT by SlickWillard
Bump.
Bump.
Bump.
Bump.
Bump.
On the other hand this stuff is on my list of 'toys to aquire'
Bump.
Bump.
Bump.
Oops - that should say $0.60, not $0.75.
They tend to stay in a tight formation and not spread out nearly as much as buckshot, negating most of a shotguns tactical advantage. They are much more like a slug.
They also tend to overpenetrate and could hit bystanders.
I wouldn't carry a shotgun loaded with them, but I would keep some on hand in case you had to deal with someone in body armor.
At home, I do load them. My bedroom is on the second floor, so I will be shooting down and don't have to worry about overpenetration. Since I know the house and the range is short, I can be confident of hitting my target even with the small pattern.
There are too many home invasion robbers now with body armor and even Police or FBI Raid Jackets.
So9
One thing I learned in 2 yrs on Navy Security, being trained in CQB/Room entry is a tactical Shotgun is your best friend! I keep 00 buck in mine but Flechette rounds are a good alternate in a dense environment. I also stock Bolo rounds, rubber slugs,OS rounds, Flare rounds (take hunting..uses for position marking if lost), and a couple of other types? Will I ever need them? I don't know...but I'd rather have them and not need them than not have them and need them.
Buckshot is a lot more commonly available. As to relative effectiveness, I cannot offer an opinion.
I do believe a shotgun is very effective as a close-to medium distance combat weapon. It is not quite as good for really close combat (less than 10 feet) as a reliable handgun. Nor, is it as good for long distances (50 yards and greater) as a rifle. But, in the range between a shotgun can be absolutely devastating, even more effective than a SMG. Why?
At shorter distances, the longer barrel is something for an opponent too grap. At longer distances, the rifle will give a higher hit probability. The advantages of a shotgun include devastating damage from solid hits, and a shotgun is also faster at knocking down multiple targets at close to medium range.
The biggest disadvantage to a shotgun is recoil. A 12 gauge shotgun loaded with magnum buckshot loads is pushing the limits of what most people can stand. A way to make the recoil more tolerable is to use a gas-operated shotgun, such as the Remington 11-87 and others.
LEGAL CAUTION: Whenever you use a modified weapon or unusual ammunition you will be subject to the bad guys lawyer trying to prove malicious intent even in self defense. IE: flechettes. Your much better off having used OO buck if you find yourself in front of a jury or DA. Besides OO buck will always get the job done. It's the prefered round of LEO's everywhere.
Why not just use slugs?
Bottom_Gun: I keep 00 buck in mine
So is the thinking that even though 000 packs a bigger punch, there are more 00 balls, hence more probability that you will at least hit the target [even if you don't kill it on the first shot]?
Sure they were good in the 105 mm howitzer in VN, but now, in the setting you describe, I want knockdown power, especially at range where I am going to use shotgun. For home fefense, I like #2 buckshot, (min damage outside home interior: i.e. legal range. Outside, 00.
Case you site a case where a guy was found guilty on a legit shooting based off of this? Ayoob likes to talk about this a lot but I have never actually heard of a case where it influenced the jury.
Right, but I'm thinking worst case scenario here.
Suppose you had been a lone policeman on duty the day the Muslims stormed Beslan Middle School #1, and all you had was your duty-issue 12 gauge, and it was you against 15-20 Muslims, at fairly close range.
What would you want as your ammunition?
If by "urban" you mean indoors or where you have worries about overpenetration, then a good 5.56 round from an AR-15 is your best bet. It has the ability to punch through body armor if needed, but will also fragment when hitting walls, minimizing overpenetration risks. It is much less of a risk than 9mm or .45 acp, and most shotgun loads that you would want to use in a self defense situation. This is why many swat teams are switching from 9mm subguns to AR type platforms for dynamic entry work.
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