Posted on 09/17/2004 9:16:15 AM PDT by LincolnLover
The basic reason for the tax on government consumption is that the government does not relieve its contractors and their employees from the reqirement to pay income and payroll taxes today nor provide credits to business for the taxes embedded into consumption price. Thus the government is required to pay the NRST which replaces those taxes paid via government consumption purchases and hiring practices.The basic reason for the tax on government consumption is that you can make the rate seem lower than it is (kinda like using the inclusive rate). You also need to read up on your constitutional law in regards to income/payroll taxes and government contractors.
The basic reason for the tax on government consumption is that you can make the rate seem lower than it is
Ok, lets do away with the provision, we won't tax government consumption and decrease revenue by that amount, as government obviously doesn't need it to pay for anything except itself. That is all it is doing when it requires its contractors and suppliers to pay taxes in proxy.
You also need to read up on your constitutional law in regards to income/payroll taxes and government contractors.
Hmmm. Which Constitutional provision requires Congress to impose a tax on government contractors?
Or rather is it Congress can not impose a tax on government contractors?
Please do tell us which of the above that Congress is held to in the Constitution?
"Guess we should keep the income tax then, huh? Thanks for that info."
We are trying to set up some debates now, YN. That offer to extoll the numerous virtues of our current tax system is still open.
"Anybody who has managed to save money under the current set of rules would have that money taxed again when they try to spend it under your fraudulent proposal."
And they will have it taxed again under the current system. The biggest difference under the FairTax (to the extent that they purchase US produced goods) would be that the taxes they pay will be explicitly broken out and identified.
You don't have a problem with a more transparent tax system, do you, Willie?
We are trying to set up some debates now, YN. That offer to extoll the numerous virtues of our current tax system is still open.Change it to for or against the FairTax and I'm there.
BTW, welcome back.
"The president likes an income tax because he thinks an income tax is fair," she said.
And they will have it taxed again under the current system. The biggest difference under the FairTax (to the extent that they purchase US produced goods) would be that the taxes they pay will be explicitly broken out and identified.Except for the 40% of taxes that wouldn't be paid by individuals.
I'm self-employed for over 20 yrs and here's your answer:
I'd have to raise the price of my services 30% to cover the tax...Why would I lower my service price knowing I have yet to pay tax on any money I choose to, or even have to spend?
If I lower my service price equal to what my income taxes were, what happens when I pay the new federal tax on what I spend?...I lose.
I'll reduce my income when you agree to reduce yours.
Actually, the NRST shills even blatantly lie about that as well.
This is evident in their preference for "tax included" pricing, which enables them to claim a "low" sales tax rate of 23%. But if the tax was calculated in the normal fashion that people are accustomed to (purchase price + tax), the sales tax rate would have to be expressed at the higher 30% rate.
No, the NRST hypocrits even lie about transparency,
they bury the tax in the price to claim a lower rate.
LOL!..So true.
Graves v. New York ex rel. O'Keefe, 306 U. S. 466, 480 (1939)
Hmmm this case says nothing as regards what the Congress can chose to do as regards exempting a Federal contractor, or anyone else for that matter, from paying any kind of Federal tax it chooses to give exemption to.
The only thing that can be said about the case is that it reminds us that government employees (federal or state) do not have implied immunity from state or federal taxation as a matter of constitutional law.
Now looking at your excerpt in context:
- The present tax is a non-discriminatory tax on income applied to salaries at a specified rate. It is not in form or substance a tax upon the Home Owners' Loan Corporation or its property or income, nor is it paid by the corporation or the government from their funds. It is measured by income which becomes the property of the taxpayer when received as compensation for his services; and the tax laid upon the privilege of receiving it is paid from his private funds and not from the funds of the government, either directly or indirectly. The theory, which once won a qualified approval, that a tax on income is legally or economically a tax on its source, is no longer tenable, New York ex rel. Cohn v. Graves, 300 U.S. 308, 313 , 314 S., 57 S.Ct. 466, 467, 108 A.L.R. 721; Hale v. State Board, 302 U.S. 95, 108 , 58 S.Ct. 102, 106; Helver- [306 U.S. 466, 481] ing v. Gerhardt, supra; cf. Metcalf & Eddy v. Mitchell, 269 U.S. 514 , 46 S. Ct. 172; Fox Film Corp. v. Doyal, 286 U.S. 123 , 52 S.Ct. 546; James v. Dravo Contracting Co., supra, page 149, 58 S.Ct. page 216; Helvering v. Mountain Producers Corp., 303 U.S. 376 , 58 S.Ct. 623, and the only possible basis for implying a constitutional immunity from state income tax of the salary of an employee of the national government or of a governmental agency is that the economic burden of the tax is in some way passed on so as to impose a burden on the national government tantamount to an interference by one government with the other in the performance of its functions.
Express exemption by Congress is not "constitutional immunity." and Congess can exempt the payment of any tax it has authority over, just as it is not required to levy any specific tax at all. The power to do a thing is not a demand to exercise it only the authority to do so as Congress will.
...what happens when I pay the new federal tax on what I spend?
you will be paying the same prices when you spend money -
if the tax was calculated in the normal fashion that people are accustomed to (purchase price + tax)
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everyone i know calculates their federal tax burden with an inclusive rate.... if you pay 25k in taxes and you earned 100K, i don't know anyone except you that would say that's a 33% rate. It's a 25% rate to everyone i know.
everyone i know calculates their federal tax burden with an inclusive rate.... if you pay 25k in taxes and you earned 100K, i don't know anyone except you that would say that's a 33% rate. It's a 25% rate to everyone i know.Is that how everyone you know figures a sales tax?
you will collect the sales tax from the buyer - so your prices remain constant to the buyer -...No, he only pays taxes on his profits. Even if he had a 20% profit margin and paid 33% total effective tax rate, the most he could drop his prices due to taxes is < 7%.
"Change it to for or against the FairTax and I'm there."
You have to be FOR something, YN. What is your preferred alternative?
"Except for the 40% of taxes that wouldn't be paid by individuals."
You must have been dozing off on these threads for the past several years. For the 10 millionth time, ALL taxes are paid by individuals.
What part of that don't you understand? I get an "A".
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