Posted on 09/14/2004 12:20:33 PM PDT by Willie Green
That's insulting Willie.
I think they need to keep the rails and develop an even better rail container shipping system than they have now. There's a right of way in New Hampshire I know about they stripped of rail just in the last few years and made a trail out of it. Just a shame. Could have had a container "port" there, run trains through it quickly and pick and place the containers. Take over lots of over-the-road trucks.
Willie, I'm not against advances in transportation like I guess you think I am. It's just that they have to make sense, and rail travel for people just doesn't make sense. Maybe high speed long distance to replace airlines. But I've seen few proposals for that.
The reason urban light-rail is BS is because it has a huge achilies heel. At one or both ends, the person has to walk. That means you have to re-design cities to be high density. No thanks. The people have voted with their U-Hauls and now lots of them live with me in Phoenix where they can own some space.
There is one idea that I wish someone would propose. Build a commuter (or even long distance) train where you could drive your car right on board and stay in it. That means you don't have to re-design the entire city, because you can drive on both ends of the trip. Stops on the rail don't have to be as often, because the stations can be farther apart. You probably would not have to "change trains" in order to make the trip you want, because you'd have maybe 5-15 miles of practical range at the ends of the trip.
There would have to be some sacrifices. The cars would have to be specially built to ride the rails. They'd be small, perhaps Honda CRX sized, two passenger. Able to accept electric power from the train for air-conditioning, etc. so the engine didn't need to run. And it would have wireless technology to coordinate trips with the system.
To use the system, while your car was on the way to the station, the GPS would be able to determine when you were near, and automatically book a "slot" on the next train. When you drove into the station, a green light would tell you which "slot" to park into that faces the rails. There would be electric power, connected underneath when you drive up, and you'd shut down the engine. When the train pulls up, it stops with an empty train slot right in front of you, the system automatically loads your car the few feet on the train. Total time to load the whole train, maybe 25 seconds. Whoosh, you're off on your commute.
The whole time you can be on the net, on FR, having a good time. At your destination, the train unloads you on the opposite side from where you loaded, and you drive away.
How's that? Progressive enough?
Current light rail systems are simply a re-hashing of the 19th century. People were not stupid back then, and they abandoned rail and bus mass transit for cars for lots of good reasons. They will not go back, except for a few lefty greenies, as you think I am for some silly reason.
Big government supported light rail is a huge waste of money. Given the current choices, they should build more freeways until they're no longer clogged. They're objectivly a much better investment.
Depending on the stop they use, transit riders have numerous modes of tranportation to choose from:
Their own car (at a Park 'n Ride), buses, cabs, rental cars, planes, etc. etc.
It's a complex transportation network, narby. Walking isn't the only option.
That means you have to re-design cities to be high density.
Cities are already high density, by definition.
As a conservative, I've been doing that for over 30 years.
Unfortunately, our "leadership" has adopted a message taken straight out of a Monty Python script: "Run away!!! Run away!!!"
I guess you're really hopeless Willie. If you can't tell the difference between Phoenix vs. Chicago or Los Angeles vs. New York, then you'll never get it.
We're not going to tear down and rebuild Phoenix to make it look like Chicago just so you can have your trains.
Buying two cars and parking one at the station just so you can ride a train next to a stinky teenager listening to rap just isn't appealing to most people. I guess you must like it since you're such a fan, but not many of the rest of us do.
There's no way I'll politically support taking money out of our pockets just to support your riding pleasure.
Gee narby, with the extra elbow room that Phoenix has available, you won't have to tear down much of anything to squeeze in some high-density light rail systems. Now is the time to go for it!!!
21 - Excellent idea, narby. I once developed a similar idea for houston mass transit, except without the 'train' portion. Basically, make the whole free way system into a giant, computer controlled 'slot car' system, where small electric cars would run, individually driven, about town, to where-ever by the driver, and then move onto the free-way, and link up to computer driving, with various speeds in various lanes, and input your destination. running at high speed, bumper to bumper, under computer control. Power would be transmitted from the 'slot' to the car, and the car would run on batteries at either end of the trip.
Willie - sorry - there just isn't enough 'density' in modern citites like Houston or Phoenix to make mass transit viable. Look on the Texas section of FR for the mis-adventures of Houston's latest mass-transit fiasco - the "Wham Bam Tram".
Just like there isn't enough 'density' to make paved roads viable?
Look on the Texas section of FR for the mis-adventures of Houston's latest mass-transit fiasco - the "Wham Bam Tram".
Been there, done that. Many times.
The vast majority of accidents are caused by reckless automobile drivers making illegal turns. That's not a problem with the transit system. Those reckless drivers are just as likely to plow into a bus if that's what Houston was using for transit. (Or into another automobile, for that matter.)
Sure, there's enough density. IF you ban all cars and use the force of government to make everybody use mass transit.
Sorry, we don't have a totalitarian government here and I wouldn't stay if we had one.
We have a democracy in this country, and the people decided decades ago they wanted personal transportation, and that's what they've got.
People back then lived your ideal, every day, and they ditched it.
Sorry.
I design tractor automatic steering systems now. We can guide within 10cm along any straight or curved path. It would be simple to communicate wirelessly now to coordinate things.
You could start with gas powered cars and special lanes (confiscate the underused carpool lanes). Our auto-steer tractors work like a cruise control. You turn them at the end. Get them lined up and press the engage button when you're ready. Touching the steering wheel gives you back control, just like pressing the brake turns off the cruise control.
I think it would be a great thing for cars too. Combine it with radar speed control to keep from hitting cars in front, and you could use it right now.
Don't know what to do about the "falling asleep" problem though.
27 - "Just like there isn't enough 'density' to make paved roads viable?"
DUH???
27 - "The vast majority of accidents are caused by reckless automobile drivers making illegal turns. That's not a problem with the transit system. ?"
DUH???
The Wham Bam Tram is not viable, accidents or no accidents.
Get real.
Houston is a huge city, and basically flat. It goes out, rather than up. It is probably the most 'sub-urban' 'city' in the US, with suburban, one story houses with yards all over the whole city, except for some blocks of higher buildings, here and there.
It is designed for auto-traffic. Even, banning autos, and forcing everyone to take mass transit would not work.
The sad part was they took so long building it (typical government pork barrel project) that they completly destroyed the businesses because they cut off car traffic. It was obvious that it used to be a very nice street. Resturants, antique shops, all of it just closed down like a ghost town.
We're getting ready to go through the same fiasco here in Phoenix. They're taking streets that are already jammed and removing lanes for a lite rail system. No one is really looking forward to it.
I'm sure the illegals will like it. The high-end neighborhoods it will go through will probably deteriorate accordingly.
33 - Better get busy fighting it in Phoenix. And cite Houston as an example.
The only really feasible mass transit for Houston, other than busses, would be an overhead mono-rail. But even then, the cost is so great, it would never work financially. Houston is just too spread out. It is designed for cars.
I think now the cost per rider is about $9.00 per ride, with the fare being about $1.00, or something like that. And it doesn't go anyplace anyone wants to go. Destinations are homes are just far too spread out in Houston.
And these fools from Yankeeland, where they have strip cities in river valleys, just don't make any sense.
I think the subsidy cost for buses in Scottsdale (so the maids can get to work), is something like $22 per ride. They could pay for taxi rides for that money.
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