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Posted on 08/28/2004 1:36:00 PM PDT by Cableguy
That's how I read the book. The skimmer boat missions were set up for 3 people -- even Schachte said that. One person handled the motor, the second handled a machine gun, the third used a M-16. Kerry puts an enlisted man on the motor, an enlisted man on the machine gun and himself on the M-16 and Kerry names the enlisted men. Schachte puts himself on the machine gun, Kerry on the M-16 and an enlisted man whose name he cannot remember on the motor.
What motive does Schachte have to come forward then? ... I just don't see a motive for Schachte to lie.
Schachte has only come forward within the last week I believe and then only reluctantly. The book says that Schachte was mentioned in a Boston Globe story on Kerry earlier this year. That story quotes the Admiral as saying that Kerry's wound was not serious. The story does not say that the Admiral was on the skimmer with Kerry. The story that the Admiral was on the skimmer came from him this last week, I believe. The Boston Globe story put pressure on the Admiral from many sides to come forward. I guess one could speculate on several motives for the Admiral to stretch the truth once he was forced to come forward. He may dislike Kerry enough to do anything to keep him from being President, or he was supposed to be on the boat and is just covering his butt.
However, don't let anyone think that I am saying that the Admiral is lying. I'm really just saying that I haven't seen enough yet to say confidently where the truth lies. Maybe, as I continue to read the book, I'll find what I'm looking for.
I agree with your analysis. While Schachte is totally believable, he doesn't have solid proof like a paper trail. But the bigger question is why did the purple heart come after 3 months? Did Kerry push for it after Schachte left Vietnam? To me this is a bigger story with this incident.
The book says: "How he obtined the award is unknown, since his refusal to execute Standard Form 180 means that whatever documents exist are known only to Kerry, the Department of Defense, and God."
Sooner or later the media have got to go after Kerry about Standard Form 180 the way they've gone after Bush about his Reserve payroll records. At least, let's hope they do.
"I don't see anything in the story of the incident that would make it stand out so vividly for the Admiral. ... I find it hard to believe that anyone under those circumstances would have such a vivid memory of a rather inocuous event."
Have you ever been in a freeze-frame, potential combat situation, or anything resembling one? The Admiral said in the interview that when you're in that type of place, you remember it. (My words: it gets burned into your mind the way no ordinary memory would.)
He further says that he told Hibbard there was no enemy action so he wasn't filing a report; Grant ok'd that.
Myers was straining and grunting for a negative proof that the Admiral was right. How do you prove you're right when being right requires that no paperwork be completed?
"Kerry has two witnessess that corroborate his story that the Admiral was not there. The Admiral has absolutely no witnesses and no documentation to support his story -- that seems strange."
The Admiral said one witness doesn't want to come forward and he's honoring that, and there might be a few others who could come forward [but it sounded as if he wasn't pressing to find such people]. He also has Hibbard, who was his superior, swearing out an affidavit on this event that confirms the Admiral's words contemporaneously.
"It appears that if the Admiral had not been in the whale boat, he should have been in the boat and that not being in the boat would amount to a deriliction of duty?"
The Admiral stated repeatedly that kerry was too new to go out alone because it was too dangerous for a new man, and that there were always two officers aboard these vessels.
Schachte set up and executed the skimmer policy.
So you have John Kerry, who we KNOW lied to his journal, and you have a reluctant witness, Admiral Schachte, coming forward because he was being maligned by the old media.
I go with the Admiral on the basis of Kerry's known record as a liar and political posturer from the get-go, and the Admiral's motives (to clear his name, to expose the lies), and Hibbard's affidavit, among other things.
I've read several accounts using that phrase today. The new DNC talking point to silence all: "The Swift Vets have been proved conclusively to be liars."
So what did Kerry promise them in the way of lucrative jobs after he's president?
You have got to be kidding. The media doesn't "have to" do anything but achieve commercial success. The media is emphatically NOT about truth.
Protocol was to file paperwork IF there is action. No paperwork, no action. Do you have paperwork for every day you don't wreck you car? For when your house doesn't burn?
Schachte didn't file paperwork. Okay, Schachte is a liar, Kerry is in charge. Where is Kerry's after action report?
I find it hard to believe that he would of been given this assignment with NO prior intercoastal experience. I would of thought you'd have to go one at least one of these with someone your equal to get the lay of the land or in this case the canal.
I was not old enough to go so perhaps someone else can shed some light...did FNG's get to lead stuff by themselves with not prior experience.
Edison
TET '68 was on or about January 20. This incident was December 2. When he says "we" he is not including Kerry.
This is totally confirmed on Kerry's website, if you have an ear for lying.
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service_timeline.html
Anything that can be objectively corroborated is a one liner. He is stuck on his previously unchallenged lies, so he has to stick to the same story. But they are trying to change the record as much as they can, a la Cambodia.
Cambodia
>>December 24, 1968 Kerry involved in combat during the Christmas Eve truce of 1968. The truce was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around Lieutenant Kerry and his five-man crew. Reacting swiftly, John Kerry and his crew silenced the machine gun nest. <<
Compare:
>>December 2, 1968 Kerry experiences first intense combat; receives first COMBAT RELATED injury. <<
with
>>February 28, 1969 For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat mission. As the force approached the target area on the narrow Dong Cung River, all units came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less than fifty-feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered his boat to attack as all units opened fire and beached directly in front of the enemy ambushers. The daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded in routing a score of enemy soldiers. The PCF gunners captured many enemy weapons in the battle that followed. On a request from U.S. Army advisors ashore, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered PCFs 94 and 23 further up river to suppress enemy sniper fire. After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats again were taken under fire from a heavily foliated area and B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF-94; with utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed. The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission. His actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. <<
I like Lisa Myers.
She isn't a journalist who is out there to be a pretty face, but to do hard-hitting journalism.
Did this air on the 24th (doubt it...you need at least a couple days editing time for a major interview), or when will it air?
Um.....I think NBC was responsible for the interview issue, not Myers herself.
She is very even-handed.
If there was a log, it was probably only a bound paper notebook, long since gone in all likelihood.
Are you kidding about the Admiral's memory? He was a career ship driver, who did a total of 6 of these Boston Whaler "skimmer ops" in VC country at night. Let me tell you, I can remember in detail such unique training evolutions I made 25 years ago as a frogman.
That's what they do. /1/ Ignore the story /2/ Attack the messanger as smear artists /3/ Announce the charges have all been proven false.
I see GREAT significance in the fact that not only did Kerry bring an 8mm movie camera to film his exploits, he brought a TYPEWRITER.
Believe me, a typewriter was NOT a LTJG's standard loadout for Viet Nam!
In the 1960s and until the 1990s, the Navy ran on standard triplicated forms which were inserted into typewriters. Yeoman and Personellmen (YNs and PNs) had custody of these blank forms. But, and unscrupulous officer could easily get blank forms, and type them up themselves, and insert them into the system.
It was not unheard of for folks to "write their own orders," for example. Often, they would eventually be caught and punished. Sometimes, they were never caught.
I know a SEAL enlisted man who wrote phony ordes for a non-existent "Ensign Smith" so that he could stay in an officer's BOQ for a few months. He was not caught at it.
It would not be hard for Kerry to resubmit his Purple Heart citation, later when all of the original senior officers had departed.
Yes, I even heard it later on a radio top-of-the-hour newscast. Isn't it amazing how fast certain 'facts' can become conclusive for Democrats!
Catholics question the Pope a whole lot more than lefties question pronouncements from NYTimes writers.
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