The Fight in Illinois: Alan Keyes vs. Barack Obama

HUMAN EVENTS ^ | August 24, 2004 | Phyllis Schlafly

[k2blader]

I would prefer him to be more 'subdued' when making public presentations.

*LOL*

Well, you can take it up with him, but based on my observations, that's just not his style. I rather appreciate his distinct personality.

[technochick99]

And those who don't vote for Keyes are against all those things?

Those in IL who don't vote for Keyes in effect support Obama (by not cancelling out a vote for him), so that would be a 'virtual' yes, unfortunately.

Wasn't it Burke who said that evil flourishes when good men do nothing? There are those in IL who dislike Keyes for one reason or the other. I have issues with some of what he says. Heck I have issues with some of what Bush says and does, but I will vote for him over Kerry w/o a doubt in my mind. And this agnostic single issue voter will cast my vote and support Keyes strongly over Obama.

[technochick99]

Oh Inc, people who don't live in IL or follow the political situations don't care about such details. I've seen it explained before (Condor51 did a good job on another thread), but they conveniently ignore the political situation that we live in. If they weren't FReepers, I would suggest that they were willfully ignorant!

[TigersEye]

If she wasn't on something then making a sweeping general statement like this certainly indicates that she wasn't thinking clearly:

This thread should interest you.

[technochick99]

You're trying to reason with these people.LOL. Luis has his mind made up regardless of what is said. Look at the political situation in IL, and you will get a different viewpoint. But to Luis it doesn't matter, and he has said so on different posts (I am paraphrasing, not directly quoting).

We have Obama or Keyes to vote for. That's it, unless you go 3rd party, but IL has a way of bumping people of the ballot.

So if we have 2 choices, why would anyone try to discourage someone from voting FOR the republican, and against the democrat? Is THAT logical, or even reasonable?

I know that etiquette requires to ping Luis since I am talking about him, but I figure he's hovering on all of the threads about Keyes and Illinois anyway.

[Aquinasfan]

FR has simply had a noisy clique that doesn't like him, for reasons that largely don't have anything to do with the critiques most of them offer publically here.

As far as I can tell, they're miffed at Alan for his run in 2000 where he harshly criticized Bush. Most of those criticisms seem to have been well-founded.

[Aquinasfan]

Keyes is very strident on his presention of the abortion issue. He's too strident for public tastes in my opinion. I would prefer him to be more 'subdued' when making public presentations.i>

Why? Is murder something to be 'subdued' about?

[technochick99]

But one still has to fight the good fight. And yes criticism of Keyes' position is legit. But at this point the criticism is absolutely meaningless. There is only time to go out and get him elected or at least give it your best shot!! No alternative that's reasonable that I can imagine. Enough said. Period.

Worth repeating!

[technochick99]

I've seen FReepers who never in a million years would have supported race-based tax exemptions all of sudden doing so because Keyes said it was his plan... Tell me - how is that good for the conservative movement in America?

I don't support it at all. I do like the way he has successfully stretched the discussion though. He is talking about giving tax breaks to people, NOT giving direct funding to left-wing poverty pimp organizations. He is the only one who has EVER mentioned this point. He is inserted a wedge into the discussion that can be used by others down the line.

Regardless, I am not wavering in my support of him. It will be far easier for me to cast my vote for him than it was for me to cast my vote for some other Pubbies I have voted for.

[technochick99]

By the way...why didn't those 6000+ volunteer for Jack Ryan?

Well, as one of the 6000, I supported Ryan. I supported him during the sex scandal and was astounded at the Party for taking him off of the ballot. IMO, it reinforced the stereotype of Pubbies being sanctimonious prigs. For me, it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

It hammered home the fact that the IL GOP was doing a great job of not representing me. Not only have I volunteered for Keyes, I contacted my county organization to volunteer with ongoing party activities. In the past, I've been active in causes, but not state activities. This race has caused me to pay more attention to the IL GOP.

[technochick99]

You DO know that Keyes's loss will be our fault, don't you?

Why do you keep repeating that? Stop with the strawmen, it's messing up Jim's carpet.

[Don Joe]

And the difference between you and John Kerry is...?

It seems that he wants to shut dissenters up as well.

The difference is that John Kerry doesn't succeed in that goal.

It works here, though. I'm mostly outtta here, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Having been told that dissent = suspension results in "virtual suspension", i.e., self-censorship.

I'm certain the pro-censorship farces forces are damping their panties in delight over their "victory" in silencing me, just as the brownshirts in Berlin reveled in their "victory" celebrations.

History teaches us, though, that such "victories" tend to be transient at best.

I expect election day to be a Great Humbler of the proud and arrogant.

Until then, my lips are sealed. Oh, it's "by choice". After all, I'd hate to have them sealed "for" me.

And no, I will NOT take Jim's invitation to "take it to DU."

The fact is, I am a damn fine debater -- when NOT censored. And if I was ever to "take it to DU", you can bet I'd do some REAL damage to the GOP.

But since that is NOT my goal, I will NOT take that advice.

And I am flummoxed as to why anyone would even suggest that people "take it to DU". That's kinda like getting into an argument with your wife, and telling her to go bed down with the guy across the street, isn't it?

I will simply accept the fact that I am censored on a site that features the word "free" (not-as-in-beer) in its title.

[technochick99]

He's too strident for public tastes in my opinion. I would prefer him to be more 'subdued' when making public presentations.

I tend to agree. But that and 50 cents will get us a Trib, ya know??

[Don Joe]

If I missed any "friendlies" (and I know I did), please ping 'em for me, anx-thay ;-)

[Don Joe]

Probably about the same time you ans I did.

Strange times...

[Don Joe]

"ans" = "and"

[malakhi]

Why don't you like Keyes? Too conservative for you? Can I assume you also didn't like the (equally conservative) president who made Keyes an ambassador? (Reagan, in case you didn't know)

No, not "too conservative". He is, in my opinion, too polarizing and divisive. I think his candidacy in this election hurts the Republican Party more than it helps.

I'm all about getting Republicans elected to the Senate. But I think our time and money are best spent on races that are winnable. If Keyes can make a contest of it, I'll take him more seriously.

[Don Joe]

And yes criticism of Keyes' position is legit. But at this point the criticism is absolutely meaningless.

Riiiiiiight.

If we had anything to say, we should have said it during the primaries...

Oh, wait, um, I mean, uh... oh, forget it.

[Caoilfhionn]

Too conservative? Didn't know there was such a thing, lol.

Look, I support returning to government as seen by our founding fathers. Keyes stands for something. He stands for goodness and right, for God and country.

Obama stands for the special interest groups like the gays which represent only 3% of our entire population.

It's time he realized that it's the constituents who are going to put a candidate in office-not the special interest groups.

Obama stands for what George Soros stands for (an open society) because George Soros bought the democratic party. After all, Obama is just the demo's puppet who stood looking all so polished at the DNC--just a token black actor with a script.

Keyes is an accomplished orator and debater and I can't wait to see them go toe-to-toe in a debate.

More than hundreds of thousands of Americans are organizing in old fashioned grass roots activism to take the country back to its origins...we won't give up our liberties without a fight.

[Luis Gonzalez]

I write what follows with some reluctance, because I know that it will anger many of Keyes's followers, but I believe that these things have got to be said, and that waiting to say them will just make the situation worse; and I know it will be difficult for some, but this screed could be titled "why I'm not a Keyes republican".

Here we are, just months away from a crucial vote, and supporters of President Bush are being booted out to accommodate the sensitivities of supporters of an unwinnable race in Illinois, deemed unwinnable not by me, but by Alan Keyes himself. The race is unwinnable, and stopping people from saying so doesn't make one damned bit of difference.

What does make a difference is the impact on this forum, and on the Presidential race itself that Keyes's political stunts will have; and I guess that this is my main point of contention with Alan Keyes, his affinity for conducting more of a political three-ring circus, than a serious political race. This is serious business, and stunts that range from attempting to chain himself to a Georgia TV station's door, to suggesting reparations for descendants of slaves do not sit well with me, and I will not support them or any candidate who engages in them.

I see Alan Keyes as the right's Al Sharpton, except that the right doesn't want an Al Sharpton.

I also refuse to accept hypocrisy from candidate simply because he has an "R" in front of his name. Alan Keyes engaging in carpetbaggery, after denouncing Hillary Clinton for engaging in carpetbaggery, AND stating that he most "certainly wouldn't imitate it", is hypocrisy, specially when he will neither address the concerns of those of us who are disturbed by his actions, nor will his supporters acquiesce to the fact that while Alan may have decided to turn his back on his integrity in order to run for political office, some of us have not chosen to turn our backs on ours and support him. His supporters would be better served acknowledging the concerns of those of us who are concerned, and addressing them, rather than trying to spin reparations into something that they are not, and hypocrisy into a virtue.

Alan Keyes is not entitled to my support as long as he and his supporters do not believe that I am entitled to my concerns, or an apology for past statements.

The race in Illinois is not only unwinnable, but divisive, and it can hurt the bigger picture...it can hurt the very winnable race to the White House; it's already hurting it in this forum.