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Price Gouging Saves Lives
Mises.org ^ | August 17, 2004 | David M. Brown

Posted on 08/17/2004 3:49:10 PM PDT by beaureguard

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To: beaureguard

That headline sounds like a Mothers of Invention album title.


41 posted on 08/17/2004 4:48:20 PM PDT by daler
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To: Normal4me

Love your comment!


42 posted on 08/17/2004 4:54:46 PM PDT by M0sby ((PROUD WIFE of MSgt Edwards USMC))
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To: raybbr

So far nobody has pointed out the direct conflict between price-gouging and Judeo-Christian religious principles.

It may be efficient, but it may also be immoral.

But I think some allowance should be made for the fact that costs of sellers go up during such periods, too. It costs more to operate your business and raising prices to compensate for your increased costs is not price-gouging.


43 posted on 08/17/2004 4:54:54 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: CTOCS

Your post is the most sensible thing on this thread.

Ther eis one thing to add a little more to cover cost of transport, ( as the other poster inferred). there is another to simply gouge and yell, "Hold out the bowls, Ma! it's raining soup!"

That last is simply unclean and certainly isn't Christian.

And you are right.

Profitting off your neighbor's suffering has a nasty way of coming back on you.

Makes people mad, and you need them.


44 posted on 08/17/2004 4:58:53 PM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno-World!")
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To: CTOCS

I understand the laws of supply and demand perfectly but profiting on the backs of my own neighbors during a time of universal suffering is not my idea of how to run a business or be a responsible member of a small community.



See? There is no need for government restrictions on gouging. The free market works.


45 posted on 08/17/2004 5:00:50 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: CTOCS

CTOCS wrote:


I imposed a limit of one large ice and two gallons of water per family. It seemed fair to me to spread the resources to as many families as possible and not to the one rich guy who could afford it all.

And don't anyone start on me with any "communism" BS.

You have to live through one of these disasters to fully appreciate and understand it.




Sounds like you handled it very well.

If the community goes down, you can, too.

And since you are living there long-term, you need to take into account the future, and how the people will interact with your family if you gouge....

Sure, you pay more now, but what do you get LATER by way of good will and help YOU might need?

Makes a difference.


46 posted on 08/17/2004 5:02:03 PM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno-World!")
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To: r9etb

Suppose the dying person doesn't have $25 for that life-saving drink of water.



Then, the seller, not having sold it at below market prices to people who didn't value it highly, will have it on hand to GIVE to the dying person, or trade it for goods, or against future earnings.

Do you support government penalties for raising prices to market prices in a crisis?


47 posted on 08/17/2004 5:02:48 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: raybbr

"Call me names all you want."

Funny how the people who always start the name calling act all verklempt when it happens to them...

Anyway, you obviously haven't listened to walter e williams or read his work. Or maybe you just can't understand it. The underlying notion is NOT money, it is FREEDOM.

He wants people to be able to decide that if there's a disaster and they want to sell supplies - and they have to go through the trouble of getting transportation, product, personnel, whatever - that they and the buyer be the sole determination of how much the supplies are sold for.

Apparently, you want the government to step in and say, no, you can't offer to sell something in high demand for a higher price.

And remember, one person selling an item at 3x the normal price doesn't preclude anyone else from selling it at or below cost or giving it away. IT"S MERELY ANOTHER OPTION!!!

And it's a good option because many people on the other side of the disaster equation do the opposite of gouging - hording. Don't see you condeming that here.

Letting the market determine the price of a needed item is extremely humane- it acts as natural discouragement of hording. So instead of a guy who only needs 2 gallons of water buying 10 because it's dirt cheap and he wants it all - the price makes him justify whether or not it's worth the extra cost. Then those extra 8 gallons are there for a family of four that need them. They're not sitting away somewhere unused because an 'evil horder' got to them first.

Having 1000 gallons of water available at $5 a gallon is better than having no gallons of water available at $1 a gallon. But apparently you'd rather have people dehydrate and die than some person who is motivated by evil 'profit' come in and fill their needs after the $1 a gallon water was sold out.


48 posted on 08/17/2004 5:02:53 PM PDT by flashbunny (Kerry helped move jobs to china - flashbunny.org/commentary/kerryoutsourced.html)
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To: CTOCS
I imposed a limit of one large ice and two gallons of water per family. It seemed fair to me to spread the resources to as many families as possible and not to the one rich guy who could afford it all.

And don't anyone start on me with any "communism" BS.

You have to live through one of these disasters to fully appreciate and understand it.

The sad fact that you conveniently overlook is that people who have "lived through one of these disasters" are the least likely to need those goods in short supply.

Everybody in Florida is bombarded by all media sources at the beginning of the hurricane season about PREPARATION. Those that heed the advice and understand the risk, make the necessary preparations and have no reason to risk price "gouging" for essential emergency supplies.

Those that don't heed the advice, dismiss the risk, or are just plain too dumb to function in the real world, will have to seek out some kind soul like yourself to assist them. The unintended consequence is that those who are unprepared, but suffer limited or no pain, have learned nothing. I'd be willing to bet they are the same ones that will be back after the next hurricane.

49 posted on 08/17/2004 5:03:46 PM PDT by been_lurking
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To: Restorer

Restorer wrote:


So far nobody has pointed out the direct conflict between price-gouging and Judeo-Christian religious principles.

It may be efficient, but it may also be immoral.




Actually, I just did point that out, but our posts crossed in the eather.



50 posted on 08/17/2004 5:05:02 PM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno-World!")
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To: flashbunny
And remember, one person selling an item at 3x the normal price doesn't preclude anyone else from selling it at or below cost or giving it away.

It does when nobody else can get any of the item to sell at a lower price or give away free because they're in the middle of a disaster area.

51 posted on 08/17/2004 5:05:23 PM PDT by Dont Mention the War (we use the ¡°ml maximize¡± command in Stata to obtain estimates of each aj , bj, and cm.)
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To: Dont Mention the War
It does when nobody else can get any of the item to sell at a lower price or give away free because they're in the middle of a disaster area.

And what condition is most likely to increase supply to the disaster area at the fastest possible speed?

Could it be high selling price?

52 posted on 08/17/2004 5:09:35 PM PDT by been_lurking
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To: been_lurking; CTOCS
Everybody in Florida is bombarded by all media sources at the beginning of the hurricane season about PREPARATION. Those that heed the advice and understand the risk, make the necessary preparations and have no reason to risk price "gouging" for essential emergency supplies.

So everybody in Florida with a brain has several weeks' worth of food, water, batteries, etc., buried somewhere in case a Category 4 or 5 hurricane comes along and destroys their entire home and everything inside it?

Forgive me if I don't believe that.

53 posted on 08/17/2004 5:13:30 PM PDT by Dont Mention the War (we use the ¡°ml maximize¡± command in Stata to obtain estimates of each aj , bj, and cm.)
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To: Normal4me
"Am I on the right website?"

Yes, last time I checked this was FREE republic. Meaning that if someone wants to rent a truck filled with bottled water and sell it for $5 a gallon where there is a water shortage, he should be FREE to do so. If anyone else wants to rent a truck and sell water below cost or give it away, they should be free to do so as well. That's the position I've seen people advocating here.

Condeming people who are filling a need just because they make a hearty profit while doing it is obscene. After all, anybody who is posting on this thread obviously isn't currently renting out a truck filled with supplies and driving it down to florida to give them away.

Sure, some may have given a few bucks here and there, but who in the end is doing more good for the people affected by the hurricane? The person sitting on the internet pontificating about how noble their beliefs are, or the guy driving down a truck down to florida filled with stuff people need because he can make a bigger profit selling it there instead of in his home town?
54 posted on 08/17/2004 5:14:12 PM PDT by flashbunny (Kerry helped move jobs to china - flashbunny.org/commentary/kerryoutsourced.html)
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To: been_lurking
And what condition is most likely to increase supply to the disaster area at the fastest possible speed?

The restoration of access to the affected area; reopened roads, power turned back on, etc. The companies that usually sell a given product will be just as desperate to get back in there and start making up for lost sales at regular prices. They're also the same companies with the infrastructure to resume sales most quickly.

And of course, even if some gouger did magically find his way before the roads were opened, his business would die the moment access was restored and the usual companies with their permanent infrastructures moved back in and resumed sales.

55 posted on 08/17/2004 5:19:15 PM PDT by Dont Mention the War (we use the ¡°ml maximize¡± command in Stata to obtain estimates of each aj , bj, and cm.)
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To: beaureguard
It's a great argument. If demand skyrockets and prices are fixed you have a Soviet system.

Ann and I were in Gulfport, MS during Hurricane Elena in 1985. Ice was perhaps $0.79 a bag before the storm hit. The day following the storm an enterprising gent brought a truckload in and proceeded to sell it from the K-Mart parking lot. The general manager of the store went out to check out the situation and asked the iceman what he was charging. $2 per bag was the reply. The manager told him to make it $1.50 per bag or he couldn't use the parking lot. No government official was involved. The manager was simply selling the use of his parking lot for a portion of the man's profits. He didn't push him all the way back to normal retail; he recognized that the man deserved some extra money for providing ice during the several day power outage.

Ann went to work that same day after the hurricane. With no power, several adjustments were made. Camp stoves, lanterns, batteries, and that sort of thing were placed on display right inside the entrance. Customers requiring items not in the front display customers were led by an employee with flashlight into the store. As the registers were not operating everything sold was recorded by hand. An emergency warehouse shipment was arranged and was planned to arrive about 11:00 that evening. Many customers came back to meet the shipment and most of them helped unload the truck.

56 posted on 08/17/2004 5:21:56 PM PDT by jimfree (Pay attention to the mission.)
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To: flashbunny; Normal4me
Sure, some may have given a few bucks here and there, but who in the end is doing more good for the people affected by the hurricane? The person sitting on the internet pontificating about how noble their beliefs are, or the guy driving down a truck down to florida filled with stuff people need because he can make a bigger profit selling it there instead of in his home town?

Um, just how many people are doing that? Or would be if they were allowed to sell at exorbitant prices? I would imagine the cost of hauling my goods hundreds or thousands of miles would require one hell of an increase in prices to make a larger profit than if I just sold my goods at home like I always do.

57 posted on 08/17/2004 5:21:59 PM PDT by Dont Mention the War (we use the ¡°ml maximize¡± command in Stata to obtain estimates of each aj , bj, and cm.)
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To: Dont Mention the War

"And remember, one person selling an item at 3x the normal price doesn't preclude anyone else from selling it at or below cost or giving it away."

"It does when nobody else can get any of the item to sell at a lower price or give away free because they're in the middle of a disaster area."

If a guy from ohio or wherever can get to a disaster area in florida to 'gouge' on prices, so can a guy selling at cost or a business like philip morris giving away truckloads of water. That's a lame argument. If he can get there, so can other people.

As the poster from the hurricane isable story commented, he didn't change his prices, because he was wary of the long term impact. He also ran out of ice and water quickly. Maybe some people bought more water than they needed because it was so cheap. Maybe someone who needed it went without because the ice and water were gone.

Maybe that need could have been filled by a guy who saw a potential for profit by getting a truck to the affected area. Most people acting in a profit motive will fill a need faster and more effectively than those not making money. They'll work longer hours to get their products sold, thus helping more people.

Ignoring that fact is ignoring thousands of years of human history.


58 posted on 08/17/2004 5:22:26 PM PDT by flashbunny (Kerry helped move jobs to china - flashbunny.org/commentary/kerryoutsourced.html)
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To: raybbr

As a human being, he is not a man I would associate with.



Simply because he points out the most efficient way to allocate scarce resources?

You are one tough customer!


59 posted on 08/17/2004 5:23:39 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: raybbr

W. Williams, when he subs for Rush, is boring and clearly out of touch with economic reality.



Actually, by my unscientific surveys, I have determined that the more intelligent the listener, the more he prefers Walter to Rush.


60 posted on 08/17/2004 5:25:06 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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