Posted on 08/17/2004 3:49:10 PM PDT by beaureguard
And did not the Lord say that these fasts were to "release the captive" and "deal your bread to the hungry"? Cursed communist, private property hater He! (/sarcasm, in case anyone misses it)
(I know you're not dissing God) ;)
Seriously though, what you propose is that therefore all private ownership is sin, since we should give whatever we have to the neediest.
I don't think He wants that.
Further, if it is true, as I believe it is, that price gouging saves lives, then my way is doing the greatest good, and ensuring the widest dispersement of property to those in need, and ensuring against hoarding.
When God says deal your bread to the hungry, that means if a government could do that faithfully it should. Soviet Communism, to address one of your straw men like it deserves, didn't. It dealt its bread to the elite.
I don't believe that is true for a minute. If government could set up a "successful socialism" it still shouldn't because it would be based on the sin of theft.
PS I have to run, but it was enjoyable speaking to you.
I disagree, but I don't hold it against you. ;)
Peace.
When it is purported to supersede any and all other orders from God, this which would otherwise become a virtue becomes sin.
And in the case of gouging the "ownership" is a particularly poor example. The vendor is not being told to take a loss, the vendor is being told to be as humane as circumstances allow.
You have begged the question. If called for by God it cannot by definition be theft.
First you have nothing more than a "belief" -- no proof, no cloud of witnesses, no bible -- and secondly what happens when the gougee is forced to spend all the money he has on vital commodity A so cannot buy equally vital commodity B at all?
The wise ones and many you call "foolish" will understand $1 water becoming $1.50 and the new water rising to whatever it cost to get it, but they will not tolerate 1000% gouging.
And the more ad-hoc merchants delivering goods and competing with each other, the lower the price. That is why it is so important that there be absolutely no threats or intimidation from the law or angry mobs.
But if relief agencies can't respond and the free market is suspended, then water will be sold at $10 a bottle -- by criminals with guns.
What the wise neighbors gain by driving out the gougers cannot be measured by dollars and cents.
What will they gain? Not emergency supplies. Not a merchant willing to pay extra to maintain stocks. How wise is that?
what happens when the gougee is forced to spend all the money he has on vital commodity A so cannot buy equally vital commodity B at all?
Then he becomes dependent on charity. But the alternative is that everyone is deprived of vital commodities.
Maybe the problem here is the belief that there is a fixed supply of goods that must be distributed equitably. That is not the case -- even during an emergency supplies will appear if the price rises sufficiently.
If the price of plywood rises high enough, people will tear apart their storage sheds and sell the wood. If the price of water rises high enough people will drain their hot water tanks.
And did not the Lord say that these fasts were to "release the captive" and "deal your bread to the hungry"?
The only way you can insure that your bread goes to hungriest is to sell to those who are willing to pay the most.
You claim to be old but you are a grasping baby at heart.
Another point about this "greedy" or "grasping" issue is that a business that makes a large profit by selling at the onset of a disaster is not, over the long run, really making extra profit at all. If he uses the profit to pay extra for scarce supplies, when the crisis is over and prices return to normal, he will be selling for less than his cost. So it all evens out.
Suppose that somebody sees my storage shed and asks for the wood; I have no particular desire to rip it apart and tell him so, but offer that for $8,000 I'd be willing to do so. If the guy hands me eighty $100 bills and I accept them, would I be guilty of 'price gouging' for asking $5,000 for a storage shed that was only worth $1,200?
If the guy hands me eighty $100 bills and I accept them, would I be guilty of 'price gouging' for asking $5,000 for a storage shed that was only worth $1,200?
If you live in Florida, you would have to ask an lawyer to find out. And I bet five different lawyers would give you five different answers.
Point is, if there are legal hazards, people probably won't take the risk.
Sigh.
How do we all rise above the level and the shackles of "enlightened selfishness" being so bewitchingly preached here by some, though not under those precise words comprising the name.
I guess a start, is not to argue on its terms any more.
Well, either you factor charity into your picture, or you don't. You can't just call it out of the wings when you need it to save yourself from a charge of "oh my gouged prices DID kill some people" and deny it otherwise.
You know the price of everything and the value of nothing. You pilot your world only on the rudder of "enlightened selfisness". In truth, the merchants who found themselves loved for their humane practices, will start becoming the lookouts for the community in the future. They will watch for far advance signs of possible disasters and bring in more items well before they are needed. Then when they can sell $30,000 rather than $3,000 worth of vital commodity a day, not because they priced gougingly but because they had enough to sell at normal prices, they will. They'll sing all the way to the bank AND everyone will love them.
I'm sure you can find some "carnal wisdom" to contradict this, but frankly I don't care.
I'm sure you can find some "carnal wisdom" to contradict this, but frankly I don't care.
I am taking the quotes out. That's carnal wisdom, with no quotes.
Yes, it does. There is always a higher demand for smart, reasonable and compassionate suppliers.
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