Posted on 08/16/2004 3:15:24 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
Maybe you should learn how to spell. After that, you might work on thinking.
Which is what I have been saying. However, that apparently makes one a "communist", and a "comrad".
Amazing how just citing the Constitution does that to a person.
>>How has the right to practice one's religion changed in any way since 1947?
You are living a very sheltered life, "Modernman".
>>What religious freedoms did your grandfathers enjoy, that you do not?
The most important, IMO, would be having your children see the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule (e.g., "Do unto others as ye would have them do unto you") every single day they attend public school.
BTW, I am old enough to have enjoyed those liberties in the 50's and 60's.
What you're REALLY saying is, you want everyone ELSE's kids to see them.
"BTW, I am old enough to have enjoyed those liberties in the 50's and 60's."
It's not a "liberty" when it's there by someone else's decree. it's also not an individual liberty to force someone else to see them, if they do not wish to.
It would seem, therefore, that the only "liberty" you think you've lost is the "liberty" to control what others do and see. To which I say, "Good Thing".
Also, it's HARDLY the "crime" you so complained about.
Historically speaking, with the beliefs of the Founding Fathers and the enlightenment philosophers, wouldn't we be more of a "deist nation"?
>> It's not a "liberty" when it's there by someone else's decree. it's also not an individual liberty to force someone else to see them, if they do not wish to.
What you are describing is "freedom", not liberty. Freedom can exist only in the absence of a society (e.g., societies always have rules). Liberty can exist only in a moral society. If you and other atheists and marxists continue to push for "freedom" at the expense of morality you will end up in bondage to an all-powerful government.
I'm not 'pretending' anything, phil. Nor am I disingenuous.
You ignore what you've read, and prattle on, and on, about 'losing rights' in the 20th century to the USSC.
What religious rights have you lost?
Each time we have this discussion, you avoid that subject. What religious freedoms did your grandfathers enjoy, that you do not?
The most important, IMO, would be having your children see the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule (e.g., "Do unto others as ye would have them do unto you") every single day they attend public school.
Strange, I attended Minnesota public schools from 1942 till '54, and don't recall seeing any religious postings in my classrooms.
In fact I doubt whether the parents back then would have stood for it. Lots of 'free-thinkers' in Minn. in those days. Religion was not discussed in polite company.
BTW, I am old enough to have enjoyed those liberties in the 50's and 60's.
And your children today can enjoy them. -- Do them a favor, and keep them out of public schools.
Ooooh....aren't we so intellectual.
Unlike you I do think.....and I am smart enough to realize that without Separation of Church and State; Legalized abortion, and Gay marriage would not be possible. If you cannot call yourself a Conservative Republican and not care about these issues. If you don't care.....then you may as well vote Democrat.
If you sacrifice morality for Civil Liberties sooner or later morality will decline to the point where Civil Liberties will be taken away to control the population.
Today it is Gay Marrage and Legalized abortion. Tommorrow it will be lowering the age of concent to the so called Denmark standard of 12 years old.
If you had a 12 year old daughter would you want here having sex with her 40 year old Sex Education teacher? Who by the way, happens to be a female also and teaching her that Gay sex is normal and healthy!
Hell no!!
I think I'll vote Republican anyway. Despite what you say, they might want the votes. And I agree with them far more than I do the Democrats. Unlike you, to most Republicans, there are far more issues than those which excite you so. Taxes, the war, government largesse, etc.
As for the rest of your incoherent paranoia, to coin a phrase, "blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda..."
In the first place, I am neither athiest nor Marxist.
In the second, if you continue to push for the regulation of "morality" as defined by one religion, you will ALSO end up in bondage to an all-powerful government. There are ample examples.
You have cited only one possible definition of "freedom" and "liberty", as well. Here's a clue...it's not "liberty" if it is subject to control by a government at its whim, which it would be, either in a theocracy based on the "morals" of one religion, or on socialism. Both are totalitarianism wearing different masks.
Ok....since you are so worried about taxes....where in the constitution does it call for a heavy graduated income tax?
You see, the Constitution provides ample mechanisms to change things in it that the people deem bad. It's the Amendment process. Further, one can vote for politicians who will confirm to the bench justices in line with your thinking.
Both require, however, time, patience, and work.
Ignoring or "spinning" the document, however, is easy, so I guess that's why you seem to prefer to.
Most people who have attended church in America for past 100 yrs have heard it said "America is a Christian Nation", not realizing the premise behind the statement. It does not mean we have an overwhelming christian population, but that the founders were Christians...the documents prove it.
The constitution is for everyone, saved or unsaved, immigrant, or athiest...and the laws apply to all, so you are right there. The spiritual side I explained, and when that side is gone I fear for all no matter what they believe.
Interesting that that's what he chose as an illustration. It reveals a lot.
To the best of my knowledge, and Tpaine, correct me if I am wrong, an Amendment can be proposed and ratified doing virtually anything, EXCEPT countering the first ten Amendments, the Bill Of Rights. The 16th did not, on its surface, do that, and so it was ratified. Some debate still goes on over its ratification process' legality, but these are a sideshow...the courts do not take them seriously, and they are no threat to the Amendment itself.
" To my knowledge, Congress has made no law respecting religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
See, you keep leaving out words! It says, "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..."
That means it cannot designate a "national" religion, or "respect" one, that is, acknowledge one designated by the states. It is also held to mean that it cannot elevate one religion above all others in any way, nor use tax dollars to promote any ONE religion. You have to use ALL the words.
Then you are arrogant. You really should read the Elliot Debates and other records and letters of the convention with an open mind, rather than as an anti-Christian bigot. You don't have to go to the library anymore. You can read most of them them online at the Library of Congress.
What religious rights have you lost? Each time we have this discussion, you avoid that subject.
Unless you have been living in a cave, you would not even have to ask that question. For the others, the first religious right we have lost is the right to the truth. The nation has lost its spiritual history, which has been replaced by an Orwellian revisionist history (much the same one you propangandize). The remainder of those rights lost include our right to raise our children in a moral society, the right to pray in public buildings and in public places, the right of our children to pray in school, and the right of our children to see constant instruction on how to be a good citizen. And I want even go into the Nazi-like practice that has led to the brutal slaughter of over 40 million unborn children in this nation, denying them the most cherish right: the right to life.
Strange, I attended Minnesota public schools from 1942 till '54, and don't recall seeing any religious postings in my classrooms. In fact I doubt whether the parents back then would have stood for it.
I am sorry you were raised in such a sheltered environment. That might explain your anti-Christian bigotry. Now you write like a card-carrying member of the ACLU, so it is our nations loss that you were raised that way. But the point is that your community and schools had every right act to be secular, as communities in other parts of the nation had the right to cherish and nurture Christianity. That right was taken away by the usurpation of power by a bigoted Supreme Court under the influence of a communist-front organization called the A.C.L.U.
Do them a favor, and keep them out of public schools.
Pathetic. You act as if my agenda is selfish (when, in fact, it is your agenda that is selfish). If I had children or grandchildren in public schools, I would most certainly keep them out; but not all parents have the means to do that (do you care about their rights?). For the record, my wife is a public school teacher who tells anyone who will listen that they should home-school. Why not change the public schools so they teach morality to the children rather than perversion? why not teach them to honor their parents, and not to kill, or steal, or bear false witness, or commit adultery? Or, is that too "moral" for you?
You are living a very sheltered life, "Modernman".
How about giving an example of how your right to practice your religion has been reduced in the last 50 or so years.
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