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California teachers lose tax breaks for classroom supplies
Monterey Herald ^ | 8/15/04 | AP - LA

Posted on 08/15/2004 9:20:58 AM PDT by NormsRevenge

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To: NormsRevenge

"we all do it because it is best for the kids,"

This topinc is one of my pet peeves.

MY PARENTS paid for my pencils, paper, notebooks, pens, crayons, art paper, typing papers and some of my books, depending on the classes as I got older. They also paid for my socks, shoes, blouses, skirts, mufflers, mittens/gloves,coats, etc. They even fed me before sending me to school (after taking care of cows, calves, horses, pigs, chickens, dogs)One room school thru 7th grade even had 2 outhouses and 1 merry-go-round for outside entertainment at recess. We had 2 days a year when we cleaned the school yard.

It IS the responsibility of the school to provide teachers, desks, chairs, buildings, heat and light, bathrooms. Lockers were optional. Chalk, some art supplies, typewriters & ribbons, calculator paper rolls, and books in the lower grades were supplied by the school district, AKA the taxpayers.

IT IS NOT the responsibility of the taxpayers or the teachers to provide paper, pencils, pens, erasers, compasses, protractors, rulers, sewing items for home ec, etc. It IS the job of the parents.
I didn't produce these kids- not one, not 5, not 8, not 15 or whatever. I didn't damage the school grounds or buildings. Never even THOUGHT about pulling a sink or toilet out of it's mountings. Stopping up a toilet for mischief was unheard of. Spray painting vile and damaging remarks on private or public property was unthinkable. I don't think calling it "their culture" today helps this one little bit.
Bill Cosby is right--this starts at the home. A white home, a black home, an Asian home, a Chicano home...no difference. Respect for others property and the items which are connected to the FREE education you are being provided in this country need more reverance. The "maintenance" man in my high school cleaned and polished the floors, kept the basketball court in shape, marked the lines on the football field, and repaired the occasional leak or broken window when a bird hit a sqeaky clean window. He changed locker combinations AFTER you graduated, so that the incoming freshmen could use your same senior locker.

Local TV stations are pleading with viewers to "Pack the Patrol Car" or Fill the baskets at the local chain office supply store to make sure kids have pencils, etc for the school year because the cutbacks of Calif state spending are jeopardizing these kids' education.

Bull!! BULL!! We are training another generation to think that welfare doesn't just come with the monthly check. Now the best education they are getting is that the taxpayer is responsible for their everyday school supplies. There seems to be no means test for the recipients of these items. Church drives to get items for the very poor, distributed by the church doesn't bother me that much. I know there are truly deserving kids out there who need a little help. But I fail to understand how all this TV coverage and brainwashing of the parents and the kids leads to more self-reliance and personal responsibility. More and more kids, regardless of the family income are being taught that whatever supplies they want will come from "somewhere". These same kids spend a small fortune on clothes "they just have to have" and carry CD players.
Bemoaning the weight of your kids backpack? Spread it all out, remove all the crap---CD's-CD player-4 #s of makeup that cheapens your 12 Y/O to looking like Anna Nicole Smith, and get down to the basics of the books they need to get an education. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE IN SCHOOL FOR!!!! Still have a heavy load? DO SOME HOMEWORK AT SCHOOL IN THE LIBRARY INSTEAD OF "HANGING OUT AT BURGER KING"!!! Then you don't have to drag the books home. Leave them in your locker.
What a quaint idea, you say? Rush is right--we are working overtime to dumb down America. The products of the 13 year long pipeline called education in USA is a fraud. After 13 years -K thru 12th- the employable value of these creatures- the end product if you will, is basically zinch-ZERO-nada. They are carring prox 7 pounds of piercings and "jewelry" and make a wonderful impression on the retail customer. Just swell for the mom & pop store that has been working for 45 years to keep their store open. Employ them out of sight and behind the scene you say? They don't want to get up in the AM and report on time. They drive and park disrespectfully on owners property. ( I turned in stupid driver at local Taco Bell. He turned out to be employee. He called me a liar. I had a witness. Told him I had better things to do at my age than to walk all over parking lot to get license plate of offender and turn it in to store owner. I didn't know he was an employee.) They steal you blind, and they think they are entitled to vacations and benefits comparable to a 20 year veteran of the job.
We all know what I am talking about. Free school supplies only tells these little darlings they need not provide their own. Where does it end?


21 posted on 08/15/2004 10:38:07 AM PDT by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: SBprone

Teachers have always spent their own money on classroom materials...

Only the ones they personally used. Chalk, etc, was provided by school district. Pens and pencils and TEACHER notebooks were provided by teachers.


22 posted on 08/15/2004 10:39:50 AM PDT by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: NormsRevenge

PS- Our cafeteria provided the following: A couple of refrigerated vending coolers which doled out a half-pint of white milk for a nickle. That was a subsidized price at the time, I believe. It should have been a dime.
For those who think I am really old- I am not on Medicare yet......


23 posted on 08/15/2004 10:42:08 AM PDT by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Bite me. I personally have spent thousands of my own money educating other peaple's kids - getting a tax deduction for it was a minor but nice gesture.

You will note that it was a tax deduction, not a rebate.

You sound like a democrat, insisting that I not only spend money on your kids, but also pay income tax on that money.

24 posted on 08/15/2004 10:44:40 AM PDT by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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To: Cultural Jihad

"It is a miracle what our teachers are doing every day," said Barbara Kerr, president of the California Teachers Association. "They spend thousands of dollars in their classrooms."

EVERY time I hear that woman's (???) voice, she makes me want to scream. The teachers cry and cry, but they are funding out of their Union dues this woman's narcisstic repeat performances in ads the union pays for. If these teacher union members are considered smart enough to teach our kids, how come they are so dumb where it concerns their union and Barbara Kerr's EGO???


25 posted on 08/15/2004 10:45:03 AM PDT by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: visagoth

WOW- A direction and happening I hadn't even thought of much less heard of. You are right.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, tho. I remember the fun of shopping for school supplies and finding just the perfect holder for everything. I am a bookkeeper today, and I still like to "shop" for these supplies more so than clothes.


26 posted on 08/15/2004 10:50:34 AM PDT by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)

A business can get tax breaks on equipment several different ways, either

A BUSINESS can write off many items.
The question was about the EMPLOYEE- specifically a mechanic who provides his own tools.


27 posted on 08/15/2004 10:52:09 AM PDT by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: visagoth

You know, that is exactly what happened on my son's 1st day of kindergarten. I couldn't have been more shocked. Why in the hell did I buy him Crayolas if he's going to end up coloring with some cheap chinese knockoff "crayon". We moved him to Catholic school last year, and I was pleased as punch to see that their supplies were to be labeled with the owner's name. =)


28 posted on 08/15/2004 11:23:35 AM PDT by Aggie Mama
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To: patton

So why don't you just itemize those as a non-reimbursed business expense?


29 posted on 08/15/2004 11:25:24 AM PDT by Aggie Mama
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To: Aggie Mama

I do - but that is subject to the 2.5% limit.


30 posted on 08/15/2004 11:32:52 AM PDT by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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To: NormsRevenge
So.....does anybody know how many classroom teachers there are in Calif?

FWIW-

31 posted on 08/15/2004 11:47:57 AM PDT by Osage Orange ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good"- Hillary Clinton)
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To: patton
Man, the public skool situation is worse than I thought.
Not only are billions of tax payer $'s being squandered on kids who can't read, spell or do math,
teachers are spending their own $' on top of it !
32 posted on 08/15/2004 11:48:34 AM PDT by AlBondigas
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To: AlBondigas
No, it is worse than that. Both my wife and I USED to be teachers.

She taught special ed, and I taught math.

Now I am a scientist, and she is a homemaker.

33 posted on 08/15/2004 11:51:41 AM PDT by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: DoughtyOne
Just how much supplies does it take to teach reading, english, math, geography and history?

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this is a serious, real question and not just one out there to bust chops.

I teach special education reading--I have spent thousands and thousands of dollars over my years--mostly on books. For a child to be successful in reading the material must be on their level. When I have 8th graders reading at a 3rd grade (or lower) level, I cannot and will not hand them a 3rd grade basal reader and say go at it. It is insulting and embarrassing for them to carry that around. I spend money on "hi-lo" readers, Higher age--lower level. They cost 5-6 bucks each. A proper leveled library should have an absolute minimum of 250 books. 500 is much better. This is for fiction. When one tosses in non-fiction requirements, the demand triples.

I am fortunate that my school district gives me about $800 a year. It will be spent before school even starts on new books and replacing lost/stolen/ruined books. Yes, I do have a check out system, but if a kid takes a book and doesn't return it, I don't have a whole lot of recourse. I try my best to keep an eye on that, but it's going to happen.

Yes, I go to the public library and check out books, but that is some risky because if one of my students' takes the book and loses it, I'm the one on the hook.

This is my experience in this subject area. This does not include the times that I've paid for a kids lunch on a field trip, paid for a dance, loaned small amounts of money for kids to buy pencils, paper, etc at the school store. But so what? I bet you all loan small amounts of money to co workers --part of the job sometimes.

But I don't do it because I get a tax break. If I get one, that's great, if not, I do it anyway because this is what good teachers do. But --------- my bil is a mechanic. He sure gets to write off all the eq he buys for his job. Fair is fair.

35 posted on 08/15/2004 12:00:07 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: patton
So, now that you're out of the sysyem...
Care to share any 1st hand publik skool absurdities w/ us ?
36 posted on 08/15/2004 12:00:34 PM PDT by AlBondigas
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To: AlBondigas

LOL - no.


37 posted on 08/15/2004 12:03:53 PM PDT by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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To: ridesthemiles

So just out of curiosity. Just for kicks and giggles--if for some insane reason you were a teacher and not one of your students had paper, pencils, notebooks, etc and you had no chalk, calenders, pens, gradebooks, etc. --- What would you do?


38 posted on 08/15/2004 12:07:45 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: SoftballMominVA

Make up a memo- copies to principal and school board and send the little darlings home with the message- No supplies- no class attendance. They can't come naked, without clothes. How come they can show up without any preparation with supplies and I as the taxpayer or you as the EMPLOYEE are to provide an answer to their shortcomings? You are only falling into the pit of thinking being OVERLY compassionate is the correct solution. Even the smallest kid learns to do something right- even a 3 y/o can throw chicken feed on a farm and have the sense that he/she is doing something productive. You cannot cradle and swaddle these kids into oblivion.
If you got to the first day of school when the kids arrive and still didn't have the supplies YOU needed, then the pre-school preparations occurring in your district are woefully inadequate. I would contact the school board direct, and get the local councilmen, taxpayers involved. I don't think you should pay for chalk, gradebooks, calendars,(??)or curiculum driven items. I do think you should provide your own pens and pencils and your personal appointment book. Just like you provide your own clothes and transportation.
If you are a teacher, I feel sorry for you on many levels. The biggest one is that when I went to school, teachers had more freedom to discipline an unruly student. Sometimes a student got to spend considerable time in detention. The rest of the class got to learn undisrupted. (Is that a word?) We had saner classes than today, I suspect.


39 posted on 08/15/2004 12:18:02 PM PDT by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: ridesthemiles
Thanks for answering that question honestly. Yes I am a teacher, and like I said in an earlier post, I chose to teach in a district where I feel I am supplied fairly well. However, each year there are a few students who walk into my class with nothing. When I have leftover notebooks from a previous year, I give them out--and at the end of the year I tell kids that if they are just going to throw their notebooks away, give them to me and I will re-use them--so these cost me nothing.

However, your plan of sending them home and telling them 'no supplies, no attendence' would lead to a firing and probably a lawsuit for discrimination. I was hoping to hear a realistic suggestion from someone not in education--a fresh viewpoint can be valuable. Unfortunately not in this case. But thanks for replying.

40 posted on 08/15/2004 1:55:20 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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