Posted on 08/07/2004 10:31:36 PM PDT by TBP
Thanks for the ping.
They're still spouting the same nonsense.
Party first. Principle, last. That is, if we can find time for it.
And Bush will lose PA because of it.
If Specter doesn't do what it takes to win, he has no one else to blame but himself. If he thinks trashing Bush the day after he won the primary won him votes, I guess he did the right thing.
The same fairness that the company you work for allows you to keep your job even though they received a resume from someone with far better credentials.
Considering that this will be Specter's last term, is it worth launching a career of a smooth-talking predictable liberal vote just to get rid of a powerful committee chair for six years? And don't rationalize that Hoeffel will be a one-termer.
Pennsylvania may not be North Dakota, but I heard the exact same argument used to get rid of RINO Mark Andrews (who I held my nose and supported, even though I knew it probably WOULD NOT be his last term) when Badray conservatives helped elect Kent Conrad in 1986. Conrad is just as far to the left of the average North Dakotan as Hoeffel is to the average Pennsylvania. But he will hold the seat until he either dies or decides to retire.
You can look it up. Since Conrad's election 18 years ago, North Dakota has not and will not elect another Republican to any congressional office. Yes, the state GOP was stupid and shot themselves in the foot. But they had a lot of help from conservative voters like you.
Vman sez: If only you would pledge to vote your conscience and vote for Clymer, so would a lot of us on this forum who are/were considering to hold their nose and support Spechter.
OO sez: If you are basing your vote exclusively to oppose Ray and no other reason (since you imply you would change your vote should he change his), I think you need to take a hard look in the mirror at what it is you truly believe and why.
I will be voting for Clymer, only because I cannot in good conscience vote for any pro-abortion candidate, R or D. But if someone held a gun to my head and forced me to choose between the two, I would join Ray with Awful Joe.
It's about the judges - never forget. In our current political environment, NOTHING is more critical.
Who determines which has the better credentials? Spectre has disqulaifications in his resume as far as I am concerned. The republicans of Penn. would have doubtless come to the same conclusion had the party and the President not steered them to Mr. Scottish Law. In the pre-Rove days it was considered poor form for the party structure to openly take sides in a primary.
I don't buy your analogy. It is more like the management team of a furniture store is tryig to decide who their new salesman will be, and the CEO of the national chain comes in and says this one applicant is his wife's nephew and should have the job. BAd form and the stockholders are not well represented.
New? Specter is anything but new. If it was an open seat and the party took sides I could see your point. In this case, I do not.
We lost. No bitterness, no recriminations, no punishment. We will learn from this and work harder next time.
Patience yields victory in politics, not haste and anger.
"Clymer is the only conservative in the race. The Specter has done nothing to advance our cause."
And you think getting a Democrat elected will?
Getting a Democrat in PA will put Jon Kyl (lifetime ACU rating of 97) in charge of SJC, because he is next in line in seniority after Specter.
So in this case, yes, getting a Democrat in will help the conservative cause more than putting the Republican in will.
We lost. No bitterness, no recriminations, no punishment. We will learn from this and work harder next time."
What has been and is happening in PA is that republicans are staying home because the Party keeps putting up RINOs. We had a good candidate to represent the Republican wing of the Republican party and the State Committee and the NRSC and Bush, etal, pulled out all the stops to intervene and keep the RINO in place. As a result, Bush will lose the state again. The party should stay out of primaries and let the people decide who their candidate will be, then the party should support the winner.
That will happen when you become chairman.
Good. Then it won't be long now. LOL
He's got my vote!
Conservatives have NOTHING to loose by backing Clymer and everything to gain. You have two evil candidates running on the two major parties, however one will be the chair of the judiciary committee. Democrat Hoffell is the "lesser evil" if you want to he honest. However a direct vote for him simply sends the message that Specter wasnt far-left enough. Until we vote for what we want, we will never get it.
Nobody thinks defeating Arlen Specter is going to make him repent his ways. It will mean he can't practice his ways in the Republican party any more.
Nobody thinks defeating Arlen Specter will teach the Republican Party a lesson about supporting incumbents. It will teach them a lesson about supporting leftists in Republican clothing.
Defeating Arlen Specter WILL make it easier for someone like Pat Toomey to win next time. Pat Toomey. Not some other conservative--they have to be local and popular like Toomey is. But a real RAT liberal in the Senate instead of a RINO will mean that voters can choose between Red and Blue instead of Red and Pink. Truly independent voters will prefer a real choice between competing ideologies, and generally vote right, to a moderate tossup any day.
Look at their participation in the national election this time--I bet their turnout is substantially higher, if Bush can get Kerry properly defined as Bush Sr. did with Dukakis, and it doesn't turn into a negative campaign slaughterhouse (THAT would be the likely independent depresser in this election).
Re-ping.
Would like your opinion of this.
Are you home yet?
No, not home yet, but couldn’t let the opportunity to respond to this particular subject pass me by before heading east. Sorry I ignored your first ping, but can’t ignore this one.
Clymer will be a superb candidate. He is a fellow Lancaster Countian (that alone should set his resumé aglow. :) I’ve spoken with him many times, and heard him speak publicly even more frequently.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not delusional. A snowball in hell has more promise of surviving than Clymer has of defeating Specter and Hoeffel in November. But there is an essential purpose to his candidacy. His throwing his hat into the ring is a trump card that so many of us genuine conservatives hoped against hope wouldn’t have to be played. But it now must. And he is the man who must play it.
Four months ago, hundreds of us worked long hours, spoke to anyone willing to listen, wore out much shoe leather, and put significant portions of our lives on hold, in a grassroots attempt to remove a dangerous, corrupt, traitorous, fraudulent ‘leader’ -- whom many of us had voted for in every one of his four previous runs for (re-)election.
But, if one is a genuine conservative-for-life, there comes a time, when the betrayals become so arrogant, and their ramifications become so potentially damaging to our national security and the sanctity of our Constitution, that we finally recognize the betrayer as every bit as deadly and determined an enemy as the leftist enemies-of-America who wear the other party label. And, if we do not expend the effort and devote the time to see to it that the real conservative, whose professed allegiance to this republic is genuine, has a chance to make his voice heard, then we are every bit as much a part of the betrayal of America as those who are actively seeking to bring her down.
In April, against all odds, we almost succeeded in nominating the best man – for the first time in a quarter of a century. But our President and our junior senator single-handedly assured the re-election of the entrenched leftist by endorsing and stumping with him. Had they not done so, Pat Toomey would have been a shoe-in (having lost by only one percent of the vote, in spite of those powerful endorsements).
Perhaps even more importantly, President Bush’s endorsement of Specter, and Specter’s resulting narrow victory, may well play a pivotal role in the presidential race in Pennsylvania – considered one of the most crucial swing states. I am convinced that a significant number of genuine Pennsylvania Republicans are throwing in the towel now. They are tired of being forced to choose between a Democrat and a Republican-in-name-only. A quarter of a century is a long time. Unfortunately, some of the disillusioned will be staying home altogether in November. Yet, had Pat Toomey been on the ballot in November, I am convinced that the Republican turnout would have been substantial, and of course would have reflected in the Bush/Cheney numbers. So, by his ‘political protocol’ endorsement of Arlen Specter, George Bush may well have inflicted much more far-reaching damage to his own re-election chances than most people (especially those outside of Pennsylvania) will ever comprehend.
Many have advised us Toomey supporters to live with the results of April’s election, and fall back into lock-step behind Specter. I, for one, will not.
April’s ‘election’ did not represent the will of Pennsylvania’s Republicans. A meaningful number of votes that were cast for Arlen Specter were cast by cross-over union democrats who registered as Republicans, only for this specific primary. A significant number of Pennsylvania Republicans voted for Specter because they believed the flagrant lies about his worthy opponent that were plastered all over their television screens for the week preceding the election. And a significant number of Pennsylvania Republicans voted for Specter because of their President’s and their junior senator’s assertion that he supports conservative legislation and would be a strong backer of the President’s agenda (from which Specter publicly distanced himself fewer than twenty-four hours after his stolen victory). Borderline illegal registrations, a barrage of damaging outright lies, and sickening ‘political protocol’ handed Arlen Specter his fifth nomination. And those of us who recognize that will not ‘live with the results,’ effectively endorsing corruption.
Consider a few kindergarten-simple … but profoundly important … facts:
If re-elected to a fifth term, Arlen Specter will chair the Senate Judiciary Committee. Arlen Specter crucified Robert Bork. Arlen Specter invoked obscure Scottish Law in order to allow Bill Clinton to continue to occupy the White House. The judiciary in this country increasingly legislates from the bench, declares null and void the will of the people, and is intent on serving as (generally leftist) societal architects. All three ‘callings’ nowhere enumerated among their Constitutional powers.
A major contribution to the continuing erosion of our liberties, and the ongoing dismantling of our Constitution, will be realized by allowing a leftist who has already committed two far-reaching national abominations in the name of ‘judicial discretion’ to chair the all-important Senate Judiciary Committee.
Should Arlen Specter not win re-election, John Kyl (the good Arizona senator), will be in line for that powerful chairmanship.
It doesn't now appear that the Republican party is in danger of losing the senate. So the bottom line in Pennsylvania has become: Does the Republican label mean more than allegiance to the Constitution? Does keeping one more man in the senate with an ‘R’ behind his name mean more than seeing to it that judges are seated who are unabashedly loyal to the original intent of the Constitution? Is there not a breaking point at which compromise with the enemy becomes betrayal?
I had believed I was going to be forced to vote for the democrat (actually, socialist) Hoeffel in November. Clymer’s entering the race will thankfully allow my conscience to be clear in that regard. I will now be voting for the best man (once again) – but this time, fully aware that he will not win – but hoping that he will take enough votes away from the Republican-in-name-only to keep him from attaining one of the most powerful positions in this country. A Hoeffel victory will seat yet another socialist scoundrel in the senate, but he will be a junior senator scoundrel. Weigh this: the power of a junior senator … vs. the power of the chair of the Judiciary Committee. Their planes (of potential damage they can inflict) don’t even intersect.
God bless Jim Clymer for allowing us the opportunity to not only vote for a good man, but to put the fear of God into (and then hopefully unseat) a bad one.
(This thread’s apparently been dead for more than a week now, so don’t bother to respond. Gonna be on the road tomorrow, and for the next few days, heading east. Thanks for the opportunity to ‘vent’ a little beforehand … :)
~ joanie
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