Posted on 08/04/2004 5:02:48 AM PDT by A. Pole
My grandmother was from Breslitovsk, in what is now Belarus. It was Poland at the time. We have no family there now. Anyone who stayed was killed.
My father's maternal grandfather came from Russia, I am not exactly sure where. He ended up settling in Mukachevo (Munkach in Hungarian) in what was then Austria-Hungary, later Czechoslovakia, the Soviet Union, and now Ukraine. Most of my family on my father's side is from that area. They began leaving for British Palestine (now Israel) in 1926.
My uncle is a jew from Ukraine, he move to Israel with family...he was engineer in SU...now (when little work is available) he works as factory worker. Since he does not speak English, he is not allowed technical work. They live poor now.
Oh and one last thing, we poor unwanted Christians, particulary Orthodox Christians live in Israel for 2 thousand years now. Israel is not a Jewish only state.
"To begin with, Jews not herded into Pale."
The truth:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/pale.html
"Oh and one last thing, we poor unwanted Christians, particulary Orthodox Christians live in Israel for 2 thousand years now. Israel is not a Jewish only state."
Israel is the Jewish State. Are you surprised if you are unwelcome given your history? Israel is meant to be a safe-haven - it cannot be that while it lets in the very people from whom Jews have been fleeing.
Not only weren't Jews allowed to move to major cities, they were expelled en masse from Kiev. Yes, that's in Ukraine today, but it was under the Czar then.
No matter how you slice it the Russians do not have clean hands. A. Pole and Russian Conservative, rather than trying to rewrite history why not worry about building a tolerant society today? Denying a history of anti-Semitism, which is there, does not make you look good. Quite the contrary.
No nation in Europe with the sole exception of Ireland has failed to persecute their Jewish populations. None.
You got it upside down. Jews were not "hearded" into the Pale. The Pale which was acquired by Russia from Poland.
Russia like Scandinavian countries, United Kingdom and numerous other countries did not allow Jewish emmigration. Only in the XIX century Jews from conquered Polish territory were allowed to immigrate to Russia proper (which was much more attractive). But this immigration was limited until Bolshevik Revolution.
Ukraninian peasants and their descendants have long memory of their serfdom and until now there is a lot of resentment against "Polish pany and their overseers".
Just for your information - Poles (followed later by Serbs and Greeks) were the three nations which FIRST challenged Hitler militarily. But Poland alone was too weak to defeat Nazi Germany and you should not blame Poles that they lost!
Poland was the main nation in Europe which allowed mass immigration of Jews and gave them freedom to prosper and develop their culture. Even after Poland weakened, became poorer and less attractive place she should command grattitude.
Christians in Israel account for less than 1/2 of 1% of the population. Orthodox Christians account for a small percentage of that number. By contrast, Israel is 81% Jewish and 18% Muslim.
Israel is a Jewish state and the homeland of the Jewish people. Any attempt to deny that will come off as anti-Zionist and quite possibly anti-Semitic. Add a denial of Jewish history vis a vis Russian anti-Semitism and you really come off looking like something I don't think you want to look like.
Oh, and regarding forced conscription: only Jews were kidnapped from the age of 12 up and forced to serve a minimum of 25 years, with a forced indoctrination into Christianity. That is different from "all ethnic groups".
2. Russian medical doctors would have to be janitors in the U.S. as well because their training is not up to Israeli or American standards.
So in otherwords, Israel is or is not racist and aparthied? According to you it is...jews only rest get out. Which is it? A democracy or aparthied?
My folks were from a village a short distance from Lomza. It was good that the Tsar was such a hateful @%$^%#!, as nearly everyone left. Good thing they did.
Never try to rewrite history or cover up, rewriting history is what West does to East (and reality) every day, usually just trying to keep the western propaganda from stinking to much.
Fact of the mater, no one have clean hands, not jews nor christians nor nationalities of russians, english, jews or whom ever.
Russia, I think is a better place today, than it was in those days. Me? I'm an American forever.
Forced long term conscription for was introduced by Peter the Great LONG BEFORE Russia acquired significant number of Jewish subjects with former Polish territory (Pale). This oppressive draft system started to be reformed after Crimean war.
But I will grant you that very likely there was little accomodation to the religious background of the draftees. I do not know exact details.
As a point of fact, no ethnic group allowed (except Russians/Ukrainians) free immigration right within Russia. Only Germans...Volga Germans allowed immigrate in, and that was because they come and build factories. This was done for socio and economic reason.
REally? Funny, much of Western Europe with money fly daily to Moscow to pay for surgeries that they must then wait at in EU forever.
Actually immigrants to Israel with advanced degrees after are reduced to menial jobs. Why - it is because there are too many doctors over there.
There is a saying I heard from my Jewish friends: "When you are going to Munich - do not take beer with you, when you are going to Israel do not take your head".
Or there is a joke: in 1930's a new group of immigrants from Germany to Palestine was building a house for themselves in a Jewish settlement.
A curious onlooker noticed some constant murmur and whispering as they were passing bricks one to another in the line.
He came closer and heard - "Danke Herr Doctor, Bitte Herr Doctor, Danke Herr Doctor, Bitte Herr Doctor, ..."
As for percentages of population...the point of the question, that you are not answering from previous other poster is whether Christians allowed in? Heidi there state Israel is for Jews...as in other religions need not to apply....that is racist, period.
Oh and if one is to throw percentages around, Russian jews were 1% of Russian population, but Russia allows others to immigrate in, regardless of religion/ethnicity.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.