Jamming for Jesus

Jerusalem Post ^ | July 29th, 2004 | Jenny Hazan

[Bella_Bru]

I would rather see my loved one alive rather than dead no matter what.

That's good. So would most of us. I'd like to add that the tradition of mourning over a child when they marry away is itself dying off.

If I had a hindu in the family good for me! I will teach him to love Jesus and accept his salvation..

And if he or she refused? Of course, you'd continue your browbeating.

Are you that much of a simpleton that you don't get it? Not everyone wants to convert or believe in your beliefs. Do you understand?

[malakhi]

And, according to Pirana (as I recall) most Jews aren't "real Jews."

Sorry to disappoint you, but Jews, not Christians, get to decide who is a Jew.

Here's praying that, every time a soul-winning Christian is booted out of ANY Middle Eastern country, 10 more come to take his place.

When do you plan on taking your missionary trip to Mecca?

[Bella_Bru]

Isn't 'the rapture' something not all Christians believe in anyway?

And I agree with Malakhi, ALL of the messianic prophecies must be fulfilled.

[missyme]

I want everyone to love "Jesus" what is so wrong with that????

[malakhi]

OKay so if you "Do" see millions of people that have dis-appeared on earth no thought at all that Jesus is on his way..you will just ignore it and go about your business?

It ain't gonna happen. Even the vast majority of Christians don't believe in "The Rapture".

[cookcounty]

Just a little background.........

What's lacking in this discussion is an understanding of just who the Messianic jews are and what they are about. The "spiritual roots" of Messianic Jews go back to the fact that the early "christians" were almost all Jews. As their message spread, more and more gentiles were drawn into (lured into?) their community, and over time became first a majority and then an overwhelming majority (the first "Church Council" was called to settle the question of whether or not it was possible for a gentile to be a christian). Early christianity was very judaic, with celebrations of the Jewish holidays and shabbat.

As the gentiles began to dominate, there arose divisions, with many of the Jews "holding back" from full participation with the gentiles. The gentiles, in turn, grumbled about the jewish practices of the Jewish followers of Jesus. These controversies continued over 200 years until the Council of Nicea in the early 300's, at which time Christian Jews were ordered to stop celebrating passover and other Jewish holidays and rituals.

Meantime, the Messianics had become increasingly isolated from mainstream Judaism, one of the major divisions coming, interestingly enough, when Rabbi Akiva proclaimed Simon bar Kochba to be the Messiah, but the messianics rejected him as a false messiah. The Nicean showdown marked the beginning of the end for the early "Messianic Jews." They were basically forced to choose between a completely gentilized Christianity or complete exclusion. By the year 400, "messianic Jews" as a movement had disappeared.

Messianic Jews of today generally reject post-Nicean christianity, wanting to return to a purer, simpler, more Hebraic form. They naturally find their biggest welcome among christians from radical Protestants who likewise reject much of the traditions of the greater part of the Christian era.

Christians seeking to evangelize among Jews are frequently misunderstood by Jews who appeal to the persecutions of the past as a rationale for not proselytizing. It is not often understood that the evangelists of today stem from groups that have stood against religious and especially persecution by christians for centuries. The Evangelizer of today is the descendant of those who were burned at the stake with the Jews. He is not likely to be swayed by arguments that blame him or his ideas for the burning, since he has a long and storied history of resistance against christian persecutors.

The Messianic Jews of today see themselves as the inheritors of the early christianity and are about the project of restoring it. Whether they should or whether they should not, it is not more than ludicrous to portray them as conniving tricksters seeking to kidnap ignorant Jews and force them to believe something against their will.

Disclosure: I'm not Jewish, I believe in Jesus. My wife is Jewish, and she believes in Jesus. She's from a very large family and I'm related by marriage to what seems like half the Israeli Army. I did not "trick" her or "trap" her, she decided upon this course herself 7 years before we were married. My kids learned Hebrew, we celebrate the holidays, and my wife is the "evangelizer" while I do most of the worrying about offending people.

[missyme]

I am not sure if it's going to happen or not according to Jack Van Impe who said he has studied every scripture from start to finish and understands the total book or Revelation says it definetly will happen..
I'm not sure.

But I will tell you this Malakhi, if you look at the writing of Revelations and what has been foretold, the Veri-Chip Implantation "Mark of the Beast" is in scripture as well as growing Anti-Semistism, Homosexuality, a growing GODLESS NATION , global climatic changes is all prophezied in the Bible about the end times scenario.

You are doing yourself a dis-service by not at least looking at it objectively. If the rapture happens I want to see you raptured, I would not want you to be left to endure the massive problems the planet will have...

[cookcounty]

" it is not more than ludicrous to portray them as conniving tricksters seeking to kidnap ignorant Jews and force them to believe something against their will."

Strike the "not." Should read: it is more than ludicrous to portray them as conniving tricksters seeking to kidnap ignorant Jews and force them to believe something against their will.

[StoneColdGOP]

Many in Christianity are trying to kill off Judaism by converting its faithful.

Many in Islam are trying to kill off Judaism by killing its faithful.

The aim of both is the elimination of Judaism.

On a personal level, if I were a Jew I'd probably consider a Christian like that an enemy too.

If these missionaries want to convert people, why don't they start off by crossing over into Palestinian territory and preaching?

[malakhi]

Jack Van Impe who said he has studied every scripture from start to finish and understands the total book or Revelation

If somebody tells you he totally understands the Book of Revelation, you can safely assume that he is full of it.

[anotherview]

I want everyone to love "Jesus" what is so wrong with that????

What's wrong with it is your endless prostletyzing. Anyone who doesn't believe in YOUR religion gets a non-stop browbeating. You are not going to convert anyone here. If anything, you are being dismissed as a nut case, and an extremely annoying one at that.

If you are an example of what it means to be Christian (and I don't think you are) then I am so very glad I am not Christian and have nothing to do with Christianity other than to tolerate it and accept it as the religion of many good people. You don't seem to be able to tolerate any other religion or to accept that it can have good people.

Folks: talking to Missyme is like talking to a brick wall. She closed her mind the first day she walked into church and won't even think about opening it to the idea that there are other ideas and beliefs out there. We can let this thread go around in circles forever or just drop it.

Yeah, this is my last post.

[malakhi]

If these missionaries want to convert people, why don't they start off by crossing over into Palestinian territory and preaching?

Yep. Over a billion Muslims. 12-15 million Jews. Seems like there would be a more prolific harvest on the other side of the Jordan.

Of course, the Muslims tend to be somewhat less civilized in their reaction to missionaries than are the Jews.

[SJackson]

Many in Christianity are trying to kill off Judaism by converting its faithful...On a personal level, if I were a Jew I'd probably consider a Christian like that an enemy too...If these missionaries want to convert people, why don't they start off by crossing over into Palestinian territory and preaching?

In the context of the article it's not the faithful they're targeting, rather the vulnerable. It's illegal to evangelize a minor in Israel, or to pay them to convert. That's apparently a law offensive to some, who prefer not to target adults.

[Bella_Bru]

Whether they should or whether they should not, it is not more than ludicrous to portray them as conniving tricksters seeking to kidnap ignorant Jews and force them to believe something against their will.

When you go after kids, you are indeed attempting to kidnap them away from their parents culture and beliefs.

[missyme]

I am not trying to convert anybody, I make no excuses that I love Jesus accept his way of salvation and I will say it to everbody until GOD makes me a mute, or my computer breaks.

I am passionate about GOD, Jesus, Animals and life in general. You call it annoying and I call it caring...

[SJackson]

Does your wife evangelize children of other faiths?

If your target tells you he's not interested (or Reverend Brickner's suggestion, drop dead, imo a bit harsh for the first meeting), how long does she persist?

If she doesn't evanglize minors and takes no for an answer, your comments don't relate to the objections raised on the thread.

[keats5]

This was an interesting article to help me see how some Jews feel about Christian missionary efforts. I certainly understand how Jewish people would get upset when Christian adults are trying to lead Jewish children from their faith. Clearly, that seems wrong.

However, when the transaction is solely between adults, it becomes difficult for the believing Christian to remain silent. We believe that none of us, of any faith, deserve heaven, and we are all doomed to hell unless we ask Jesus to save us. I typically do not share my religious views with Jews, unless they bring up the subject. However, I often feel guilty when I don't speak. I'm Christan today only because someone took the risk of sharing the gospel with me. She knew it could cost our relationship, but she took that chance because of her incredible love for me. We sincerely believe that not sharing the gospel is like refusing to throw a lifeline to someone who's drowning.

Obviously, many Jewish people would feel offended to hear that we think they can't get to heaven without accepting Jesus. Yet, we think nobody, of any faith, can get to heaven without Jesus. Jesus sets forth a practically unreachable standard of good behavior when he says "Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." None of us are perfect enough for the Kingdom of God, which is why Jesus needed to sacrifice himself, to pay the penalty for our sins. He was the perfect unblemished Lamb of God- our sin atonement. In our view, if you reject the Lamb, you also reject the atonement.

Still, to avoid offense, most Christians never share the gospel with Jews. When they do, they do it out of love. We're certainly not doing it to destroy anyone's heritage. We typically only bring up the issue of salvation when we can't bear the idea of a loved one dying without Christ.

[missyme]

So Malakhi, what do you think of the Implant chip? will you get one they are trying to incorporate that now in hospitals? and they have implants for people in Spain with buying and selling products?

The Mark fo the Beast has to do with what is going on now? what do you think it is?

I really hope you will not let yourself be implanted with a chip....

[missyme]

I really do think some Jewish People know we have good intentions not all but some. As much as I take alot of heat from some Jewish Freepers, I know deep in my heart a few know that I have good intentions.....

[malakhi]

I really hope you will not let yourself be implanted with a chip....

I oppose such things for privacy reasons, not because of any apocalytic beliefs.